4 ms·

The original proposal of the WWW, HTMLized

94 points by zolotarev 10y ago

js2 10y ago
Posted here because it's the topic of the Season 3 finale of Halt and Catch Fire?
duncan_bayne 10y ago
They should lock this content behind some EME-compatible DRM, so we can see how things have changed over the years.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
agumonkey 10y ago
Intersting how broad it was, some bits of "semantic web" in place. And at the same time, as described here, it's mostly multi user hypercard.
- nathancahill 10y ago
  > multi user hypercard sign me the fuck up
tudorw 10y ago
Because any excuse to post Mr Adams work is a good excuse, https://vimeo.com/72501076 https://vimeo.com/72501076
- igravious 10y ago
  [9m05s in: pause] Oh. My. God. How did I not know about this? I have read everything Mr. Adams has published (I believe). Played a couple of his games. Listened to his radio output. Watched _that_ movie. But I did not know about this. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm actually getting a bit emotional here. Bonus is that I'm super interested in the evolution of text from codex to semantic web (and beyond?) so both the purveyor of the content and the content itself interest me. That Ted Nelson, I tells ya. Totally unrelated. One thing that the web could have had was _typed_ links. A number of people have made this observation but not many. The idea is built into the assumptions that gave birth to hypertext but the idea was never implemented. See here, for instance: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.22907/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.22907/abstrac...
  - tudorw 10y ago
    Thank you for your thank you, so glad I could share this to someone like you, Ted, indeed, nuff said...
- frik 10y ago
  Interesting historic piece. the TV movie is called Hyperland (1990): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188677/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188677/ Similar videos with good visions can be found from AT&T (the big old one), Microsoft and Apple - all from ca 1990. Apple Knowledge Navigator TV advertisement (1987): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0 AT&T 1993 "You will" TV advertisement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb0avfQme8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb0avfQme8 , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will "Information at your Fingertips" Microsoft presentation at COMDEX 1995: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XxeY-OchwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XxeY-OchwY "Microsoft Network" (MSN 1.0) TV advertisement (1995): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcNcFhctc&t=17m25s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcNcFhctc&t=17m25s
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Excellent piece, worth its own post. Frightening how much the Web 2016 resembles TV 1990. What is it about ads, distraction, propaganda, and similar drek?
  - tudorw 10y ago
    early days, alpha net is a better name than the internet :)
- Chinjut 10y ago
  In case it's not obvious to anyone else, the referenced "Mr Adams" is Douglas Adams (of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", etc., fame).
woodruffw 10y ago
> The original document file (I think - I can't test it) Interestingly, I can open this just fine in LibreOffice 5. The alignment is slightly off, but the graphics appear just fine.
- kiddico 10y ago
  Holy crap you're right. How'd you think to open it in libreoffice? I used file on it, and all it said was 'data'. Sure enough as soon as I changed it to .odt it opened up fine.
  - woodruffw 10y ago
    I just figured it was worth a try. I didn't have to change the suffix, just selecting LibreOffice in my browser's "Open With" dialog seems to have worked fine.
- superphunthyme 10y ago
  It appears to be a "MacWrite II document" according to http://mark0.net/onlinetrid.aspx http://mark0.net/onlinetrid.aspx
  - woodruffw 10y ago
    Thanks for the link! I had tried running `file` on it, with no success ;)
    - cheiVia0 10y ago
      It is definitely not MacWrite since it doesn't conform to the format: http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/MacWrite http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/MacWrite Looks like it is actually Word for Mac: https://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html https://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html
hossbeast 10y ago
Quoting, "Keywords are a common method of accessing data for which one does not have the exact coordinates. The usual problem with keywords, however, is that two people never chose the same keywords. The keywords then become useful only to people who already know the application well." Interesting that some problems have been known for so long, with no solution in sight. The whole article is super interesting in the context of everything the author did not yet know
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  One solution for this comes from the field of librarianship -- the use of standard ontologies for classifying information. The two most widely used are the Dewey Decimal system (proprietary) and the Library of Congress Catalog Classification System (nonproprietary). I've seen arguments that Dewey is more logically consistent, but the LCCCS's open nature lends it a strong advantage. Even such ontologies aren't entirely stable -- they change over time, and as with other bits of knowledge, reflect cultural fads and fashions. But I've been recommending to several systems (Pocket, Ello, blogging platforms) that a classification / tagging system based on these might actually be a fairly reasonable start, if only in that there's a very large, mostly-well-considered basis to start from.
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  wouldnt word2vec solve keywords problem?

94 points by zolotarev 10y ago

js2 10y ago

Posted here because it's the topic of the Season 3 finale of Halt and Catch Fire?

duncan_bayne 10y ago

They should lock this content behind some EME-compatible DRM, so we can see how things have changed over the years.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

agumonkey 10y ago

Intersting how broad it was, some bits of "semantic web" in place. And at the same time, as described here, it's mostly multi user hypercard.

nathancahill 10y ago
> multi user hypercard sign me the fuck up

tudorw 10y ago

Because any excuse to post Mr Adams work is a good excuse, https://vimeo.com/72501076 https://vimeo.com/72501076

igravious 10y ago
[9m05s in: pause] Oh. My. God. How did I not know about this? I have read everything Mr. Adams has published (I believe). Played a couple of his games. Listened to his radio output. Watched _that_ movie. But I did not know about this. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm actually getting a bit emotional here. Bonus is that I'm super interested in the evolution of text from codex to semantic web (and beyond?) so both the purveyor of the content and the content itself interest me. That Ted Nelson, I tells ya. Totally unrelated. One thing that the web could have had was _typed_ links. A number of people have made this observation but not many. The idea is built into the assumptions that gave birth to hypertext but the idea was never implemented. See here, for instance: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.22907/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.22907/abstrac...
- tudorw 10y ago
  Thank you for your thank you, so glad I could share this to someone like you, Ted, indeed, nuff said...
frik 10y ago
Interesting historic piece. the TV movie is called Hyperland (1990): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188677/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188677/ Similar videos with good visions can be found from AT&T (the big old one), Microsoft and Apple - all from ca 1990. Apple Knowledge Navigator TV advertisement (1987): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0 AT&T 1993 "You will" TV advertisement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb0avfQme8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb0avfQme8 , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will "Information at your Fingertips" Microsoft presentation at COMDEX 1995: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XxeY-OchwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XxeY-OchwY "Microsoft Network" (MSN 1.0) TV advertisement (1995): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcNcFhctc&t=17m25s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcNcFhctc&t=17m25s
dredmorbius 10y ago
Excellent piece, worth its own post. Frightening how much the Web 2016 resembles TV 1990. What is it about ads, distraction, propaganda, and similar drek?
- tudorw 10y ago
  early days, alpha net is a better name than the internet :)
Chinjut 10y ago
In case it's not obvious to anyone else, the referenced "Mr Adams" is Douglas Adams (of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", etc., fame).

woodruffw 10y ago

> The original document file (I think - I can't test it) Interestingly, I can open this just fine in LibreOffice 5. The alignment is slightly off, but the graphics appear just fine.

kiddico 10y ago
Holy crap you're right. How'd you think to open it in libreoffice? I used file on it, and all it said was 'data'. Sure enough as soon as I changed it to .odt it opened up fine.
- woodruffw 10y ago
  I just figured it was worth a try. I didn't have to change the suffix, just selecting LibreOffice in my browser's "Open With" dialog seems to have worked fine.
superphunthyme 10y ago
It appears to be a "MacWrite II document" according to http://mark0.net/onlinetrid.aspx http://mark0.net/onlinetrid.aspx
- woodruffw 10y ago
  Thanks for the link! I had tried running `file` on it, with no success ;)
  - cheiVia0 10y ago
    It is definitely not MacWrite since it doesn't conform to the format: http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/MacWrite http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/MacWrite Looks like it is actually Word for Mac: https://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html https://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

hossbeast 10y ago

Quoting, "Keywords are a common method of accessing data for which one does not have the exact coordinates. The usual problem with keywords, however, is that two people never chose the same keywords. The keywords then become useful only to people who already know the application well." Interesting that some problems have been known for so long, with no solution in sight. The whole article is super interesting in the context of everything the author did not yet know

dredmorbius 10y ago
One solution for this comes from the field of librarianship -- the use of standard ontologies for classifying information. The two most widely used are the Dewey Decimal system (proprietary) and the Library of Congress Catalog Classification System (nonproprietary). I've seen arguments that Dewey is more logically consistent, but the LCCCS's open nature lends it a strong advantage. Even such ontologies aren't entirely stable -- they change over time, and as with other bits of knowledge, reflect cultural fads and fashions. But I've been recommending to several systems (Pocket, Ello, blogging platforms) that a classification / tagging system based on these might actually be a fairly reasonable start, if only in that there's a very large, mostly-well-considered basis to start from.
rasz_pl 10y ago
wouldnt word2vec solve keywords problem?