3 ms·

If I understand you correctly, you are advocating for defining the second such that its length varies, but its connection to a day does not? And you would also

by sesqu 10y ago

If I understand you correctly, you are advocating for defining the second such that its length varies, but its connection to a day does not? And you would also introduce locality to the definition? edit: Or perhaps you meant to tune variably, and not redefine the second. That sounds more sensible, but not as practical.

nonbel 10y ago
Here is the scheme which I am thinking may better link timekeeping to biological clocks: A day is defined as sunrise to sundown. A night is defined as sundown to sunrise. Every day consists of 12 hours. Every night consists of 12 hours. Each hour consists of 60 minutes. Each minute consists of 60 seconds. There are always 60*60*12 = 43,200 seconds each day and night. Within a given day or night every second is of equal length.* On the equinox (length of day = length of night) we will have a "base unit" s0. At times/places when there is more daylight than that, the duration of a second during the day s_d > s0 and during the night s_n < s0. *It may be better to continuously vary the duration of a second so there is not a sudden change at sundown/sunup. It can perhaps be linked to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_zenith_angle. I think the Egyptians used to use Sirius at night for this, but don't remember where I heard that. Anyway now we can always be monitoring the position of the sun even when we cannot see it at the moment. The second part of what I am suggesting is there may be aesthetic or health benefits to varying periodic phenomenon along with the relative duration of a second. So if frequency is f = cycles/sec and we want to maintain the same numerical value, the f/f0 should scale with s_d/s0 and s_n/s0 (or just s/s0 if we are continuously varying it). Consider if f0 = 432 is ideal at the equinox, and we are wondering about f = 440. I would say that we look for when/where s = 440/432 x s0 x k. Setting the scaling constant k =1 and using an R package that in turn uses noaa sunrise/sunset data[1], I got 3/26/2016 at + 18 degrees latitude. You could do the same calculation in reverse from a given time/latitude to choose a preferred frequency. [1] http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/ http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/
- sesqu 10y ago
  I see. I can't really get on board with a system where half an an hour at lunch is twice as long as half an hour at dinner, and I have a suspicion that it would actually further mire arguments about music pitch, but it's certainly a funny thought.
  - nonbel 10y ago
    >"I can't really get on board with a system where half an an hour at lunch is twice as long as half an hour at dinner" Move to the equator? J/k, I would not think this system would be law, or used for all purposes. Despite the huge pain that dealing with timestamps from various locations can sometimes be today, I suspect my scheme would make it more difficult to synchronize long distance activities. It would more be a chill, get back to nature, type of timekeeping. Used at resorts and rehab centers.

by sesqu 10y ago

nonbel 10y ago

Here is the scheme which I am thinking may better link timekeeping to biological clocks: A day is defined as sunrise to sundown. A night is defined as sundown to sunrise. Every day consists of 12 hours. Every night consists of 12 hours. Each hour consists of 60 minutes. Each minute consists of 60 seconds. There are always 60*60*12 = 43,200 seconds each day and night. Within a given day or night every second is of equal length.* On the equinox (length of day = length of night) we will have a "base unit" s0. At times/places when there is more daylight than that, the duration of a second during the day s_d > s0 and during the night s_n < s0. *It may be better to continuously vary the duration of a second so there is not a sudden change at sundown/sunup. It can perhaps be linked to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_zenith_angle. I think the Egyptians used to use Sirius at night for this, but don't remember where I heard that. Anyway now we can always be monitoring the position of the sun even when we cannot see it at the moment. The second part of what I am suggesting is there may be aesthetic or health benefits to varying periodic phenomenon along with the relative duration of a second. So if frequency is f = cycles/sec and we want to maintain the same numerical value, the f/f0 should scale with s_d/s0 and s_n/s0 (or just s/s0 if we are continuously varying it). Consider if f0 = 432 is ideal at the equinox, and we are wondering about f = 440. I would say that we look for when/where s = 440/432 x s0 x k. Setting the scaling constant k =1 and using an R package that in turn uses noaa sunrise/sunset data[1], I got 3/26/2016 at + 18 degrees latitude. You could do the same calculation in reverse from a given time/latitude to choose a preferred frequency. [1] http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/ http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

sesqu 10y ago
I see. I can't really get on board with a system where half an an hour at lunch is twice as long as half an hour at dinner, and I have a suspicion that it would actually further mire arguments about music pitch, but it's certainly a funny thought.
- nonbel 10y ago
  >"I can't really get on board with a system where half an an hour at lunch is twice as long as half an hour at dinner" Move to the equator? J/k, I would not think this system would be law, or used for all purposes. Despite the huge pain that dealing with timestamps from various locations can sometimes be today, I suspect my scheme would make it more difficult to synchronize long distance activities. It would more be a chill, get back to nature, type of timekeeping. Used at resorts and rehab centers.