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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde#Retirement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde#Retirement > It has been suggested that Concorde was not withdrawn for

by gaur 10y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde#Retirement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde#Retirement > It has been suggested that Concorde was not withdrawn for the reasons usually given but that it became apparent during the grounding of Concorde that the airlines could make more profit carrying first class passengers subsonically. Sad.

Reason077 10y ago
If that was true, they would probably have been grounded far earlier. The aircraft were certainly approaching the end of their design life when service ended, some being almost 30 years old. Grounding them was also a very good thing from an environmental perspective!
- gaur 10y ago
  The theory here is that if the airlines hadn't been forced to ground Concorde for a year following the 2000 crash, they never would have realized they could be bilking more money out of people by providing an inferior (conventional) air travel service.
  - Reason077 10y ago
    I'm sure the airlines were well aware that conventional first-class tickets were more profitable. Both British Airways and Air France made plenty of money selling those at the time, and they still do. But Concorde was a differentiated product that other airlines couldn't compete with. Despite it's high operating costs, it was profitable (at least for BA) and it also acted as a "halo" product that boosted to the image/prestige of the entire airline. In the case of BA, they were also given the aircraft (and spare parts) by the government at far below market value. There may have been some kind of unwritten agreement that they would keep operating them for as long as reasonably possible, basically as a matter of national pride.
SFJulie 10y ago
It was withdrawn because USA had no such to this plane and they were pissed, so FAA forbid concorde to fly over their country, and always made clear they would revoke the tolerance for landing near the transatlantic anytime soon. USA is okay for being the first, but not the other country. They look like France (and UK) of the colonial times. So fun that a nation became what they fought against. https://www.contrepoints.org/2016/07/30/261731-usa-letat-a-tue-vol-supersonique https://www.contrepoints.org/2016/07/30/261731-usa-letat-a-t...
- mathw 10y ago
  The Concorde was forbidden to fly overland in the USA because the sonic boom is horrible for the people underneath it. And it's even horribly loud flying subsonic. We won't get supersonic commercial flight again without going suborbital (which seems likely to happen at some point, just land SpaceShipTwo somewhere else... like Australia), or someone figuring out how to design an airframe which dissipates the boom before it hits the ground. People are working on that, though.
  - SFJulie 10y ago
    Well, I have been looking at a map of USA ... It is a big country with a looot of space with inhabited zones. I have a picture for you to compare how small France is compared to USA http://www.wanderingfrance.com/blog/images/143.png http://www.wanderingfrance.com/blog/images/143.png Oh, and the mirage and rafale find inhabited places everyday to make their sonic bangs, so I am sure it can be done in the USA too and that their military planes are doing so too.
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  world is constantly changing, it's just us with our super-limited lifespans that see (and want to see) some things as static, stable and given. empires rise and fall, look where greek, roman or ottoman empire where and where the countries are now. same will happen to US, it lost many ideals of it's founding fathers and losing more every day. I wouldn't stress too much about it, it's natural. all old must die so new, maybe even better can be born

by gaur 10y ago

Reason077 10y ago

If that was true, they would probably have been grounded far earlier. The aircraft were certainly approaching the end of their design life when service ended, some being almost 30 years old. Grounding them was also a very good thing from an environmental perspective!

gaur 10y ago
The theory here is that if the airlines hadn't been forced to ground Concorde for a year following the 2000 crash, they never would have realized they could be bilking more money out of people by providing an inferior (conventional) air travel service.
- Reason077 10y ago
  I'm sure the airlines were well aware that conventional first-class tickets were more profitable. Both British Airways and Air France made plenty of money selling those at the time, and they still do. But Concorde was a differentiated product that other airlines couldn't compete with. Despite it's high operating costs, it was profitable (at least for BA) and it also acted as a "halo" product that boosted to the image/prestige of the entire airline. In the case of BA, they were also given the aircraft (and spare parts) by the government at far below market value. There may have been some kind of unwritten agreement that they would keep operating them for as long as reasonably possible, basically as a matter of national pride.

SFJulie 10y ago

It was withdrawn because USA had no such to this plane and they were pissed, so FAA forbid concorde to fly over their country, and always made clear they would revoke the tolerance for landing near the transatlantic anytime soon. USA is okay for being the first, but not the other country. They look like France (and UK) of the colonial times. So fun that a nation became what they fought against. https://www.contrepoints.org/2016/07/30/261731-usa-letat-a-tue-vol-supersonique https://www.contrepoints.org/2016/07/30/261731-usa-letat-a-t...

mathw 10y ago
The Concorde was forbidden to fly overland in the USA because the sonic boom is horrible for the people underneath it. And it's even horribly loud flying subsonic. We won't get supersonic commercial flight again without going suborbital (which seems likely to happen at some point, just land SpaceShipTwo somewhere else... like Australia), or someone figuring out how to design an airframe which dissipates the boom before it hits the ground. People are working on that, though.
- SFJulie 10y ago
  Well, I have been looking at a map of USA ... It is a big country with a looot of space with inhabited zones. I have a picture for you to compare how small France is compared to USA http://www.wanderingfrance.com/blog/images/143.png http://www.wanderingfrance.com/blog/images/143.png Oh, and the mirage and rafale find inhabited places everyday to make their sonic bangs, so I am sure it can be done in the USA too and that their military planes are doing so too.
saiya-jin 10y ago
world is constantly changing, it's just us with our super-limited lifespans that see (and want to see) some things as static, stable and given. empires rise and fall, look where greek, roman or ottoman empire where and where the countries are now. same will happen to US, it lost many ideals of it's founding fathers and losing more every day. I wouldn't stress too much about it, it's natural. all old must die so new, maybe even better can be born