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The engineer in question is a good friend of several of us here at HN. We sincerely appreciate the support he's being shown here and elsewhere around the intern

by qeorge 17y ago

The engineer in question is a good friend of several of us here at HN. We sincerely appreciate the support he's being shown here and elsewhere around the internet. So there is no doubt: Gray is one of the smartest engineers I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, and I'm sure he feels terrible about this. Although I'm sure this is going to be one of the worst weeks of his life, he will land on his feet, wherever that may be. If he becomes available for hire, I highly recommend him to any startup in the SF area. Its rare to find such a combination of raw talent and work ethic in one engineer.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ryanisinallofus 17y ago
His job was to make stuff at Apple, their job is to report stuff about Apple. No moral outrage please.
- maxharris 17y ago
  When their "job" comes into conflict with state laws concerning theft, moral outrage is appropriate. Gizmodo traded in property they knew was stolen (according to California state law), and that alone is enough for anyone to be angry with them. The way they treated Gray is awful and immoral (if not illegal). I won't visit their site again, and I don't think anyone else should, either (morally speaking).
  - Robin_Message 17y ago
    I have to disagree with this conflation of laws and morals. Journalists certainly break laws; and this may have happened in this case; but I don't see how that makes them immoral. For example, the theft and sale to a newspaper of UK MPs expenses details was illegal but not widely considered immoral. I'd like to quote from [1] before continuing: "Last year, an employee at Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that is one of Apple's biggest suppliers, committed suicide after being accused of stealing a prototype for the iPhone. Sun Danyong, 25, was a university graduate working in the logistics department when the prototype went missing. An investigation revealed that the factory's security staff had beaten him, and he subsequently jumped to his death from the 12th floor of his apartment building." If you want to talk about the legality and morality of Apple trying its damnedest to keep trade secrets, then what is your opinion of Apple using a supplier which beats an employee suspected of theft/loss and pushes him to suicide? Because, (morally speaking) that is far more reprehensible than a journalist getting a scoop by acquiring a trade secret through theft. As to the way Gizmodo treated Gary, well, it sucks that he lost it but that's life, Apple should accept that in-field testing will lead to some losses. Gizmodo couldn't have hidden his identity since presumably only one iPhone 4G has been lost. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7330986/Apple-admits-using-child-labour.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7330986/Apple-ad...
    - maxharris 17y ago
      I do not conflate law with morality; they are distinct and have a definite relationship. The moral for any individual is what is in that person's long-term rational self-interest. Law is a subset - it should only extract justice in the defense of individual rights. So correct, objective laws (good for people) must be moral. Although correct laws necessarily cannot enforce morality (instead, they must be limited to the protection of individual rights), they are limited by morality - they must not criminalize moral actions. -- If someone came to your house and robbed you, would you just say, "Hey, that's life. People are going to rob me, so I just have to accept some losses. I'm not going to defend myself or go to the police"? -- On to Foxconn: Yes, Apple should take responsibility for the Foxconn suicide, along with Dell and Sony, all of whom use the same factory in Shenzhen, where four more employees have since committed suicide. What does taking responsibility entail? Getting more control over Foxconn's security procedures, demanding prosecution of the particular managers that actually forced the suicides, all under threat of halting production and using a different supplier, or manufacturing in a different country if necessary. If that doesn't work, Apple should spend some bucks and literally advertise the problem to Americans - take the moral high ground and say "we took the lead in quitting these guys, and our competitors - Dell and Sony - did not." If they don't do this, and the people making the devices keep getting murdered (forced suicide), they lose legitimacy morally. Morality is essential in business, because without it, long-term profitability cannot be achieved.
- ugh 17y ago
  Report stuff about Apple, not about Apple engineers. I can understand if you think it's ok for Gizmodo to buy the lost/stolen iPhone (I don't agree), I absoluly can't understand how you can think it is ok for Gizmodo to drag Gray into the public.
wisty 17y ago
There is a slight upside - Apple might not let him go because they don't want to wear any flack from the media. Still, that would put him in a pretty difficult position. Having the perception that you were kept on just to avoid PR problems isn't an ideal situation. I'd rather be sacked quietly and look for a job elsewhere, or be quietly kept on; whatever the boss though best. I'm sure that the reporters justify it to themselves on that basis. But they haven't looked ahead.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  If Apple lets their prototypes out of the house in conditions that are 'real life' then they have to live with the fact that in 'real life' phones get lost and get stolen. What bugs me is that I can't imagine that every phone that is lost or stolen makes it's way to gizmodo, so how on earth did they find out that that phone was a prototype? Or did they really have a bunch of 'misses' before this 'hit'. Apple should do exactly nothing about this, unless the prototype iphone was taken off their facility without their permission. If it was then the risk is theirs. Every day there must be thousands of phones that are lost, and it's not like it's a big deal anyway. Just another incremental upgrade to a consumer device, who cares.
  - jonknee 17y ago
    > What bugs me is that I can't imagine that every phone that is lost or stolen makes it's way to gizmodo, so how on earth did they find out that that phone was a prototype? Or did they really have a bunch of 'misses' before this 'hit'. It looked different. iPhones only come in a couple designs, it's not hard to tell when it's different.
    - derefr 17y ago
      It was wearing a case that made it look like a 3GS (in a case), though. You'd have to pick it up and stare at it to realize it had an extra camera cutout, etc. You'd have to be planning to do something with the phone already (steal it, or just return it to its owner) to take that long/hard a look.
  - 17y ago
nearestneighbor 17y ago
> The engineer in question is a good friend of several of us here at HN. Do you mean that literally, or similar to "Ich bin ein Berliner"? If the former, that's a rather incredible coincidence, wouldn't you say?
- qeorge 17y ago
  Yes, I mean it literally. And no, not really a coincidence - he's got a lot of friends.
  - 9oliYQjP 17y ago
    I honestly think Steve Jobs should make light of the situation and have your friend walk the production version of the new iPhone onto the stage at June's keynote. It was the plastering of this guy's poor face and name across their site that pushed me over the edge into boycotting Gizmodo. Didn't they run around at Comdex a few years back randomly turning off displays with one of those IR tv blasters? We are talking about a bunch of immature douchebags here.
- hugh3 17y ago
  Not that much of a coincidence. It's a pretty big site, and a pretty small world.
cosmicray 17y ago
imho, Apple should find a way to work Gray into the 4G iPhone announcement event. Maybe have him appear with the phone for Steve, that Steve 'misplaced'. Consider it a silent finger to gawker.

by qeorge 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

ryanisinallofus 17y ago

His job was to make stuff at Apple, their job is to report stuff about Apple. No moral outrage please.

maxharris 17y ago
When their "job" comes into conflict with state laws concerning theft, moral outrage is appropriate. Gizmodo traded in property they knew was stolen (according to California state law), and that alone is enough for anyone to be angry with them. The way they treated Gray is awful and immoral (if not illegal). I won't visit their site again, and I don't think anyone else should, either (morally speaking).
- Robin_Message 17y ago
  I have to disagree with this conflation of laws and morals. Journalists certainly break laws; and this may have happened in this case; but I don't see how that makes them immoral. For example, the theft and sale to a newspaper of UK MPs expenses details was illegal but not widely considered immoral. I'd like to quote from [1] before continuing: "Last year, an employee at Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that is one of Apple's biggest suppliers, committed suicide after being accused of stealing a prototype for the iPhone. Sun Danyong, 25, was a university graduate working in the logistics department when the prototype went missing. An investigation revealed that the factory's security staff had beaten him, and he subsequently jumped to his death from the 12th floor of his apartment building." If you want to talk about the legality and morality of Apple trying its damnedest to keep trade secrets, then what is your opinion of Apple using a supplier which beats an employee suspected of theft/loss and pushes him to suicide? Because, (morally speaking) that is far more reprehensible than a journalist getting a scoop by acquiring a trade secret through theft. As to the way Gizmodo treated Gary, well, it sucks that he lost it but that's life, Apple should accept that in-field testing will lead to some losses. Gizmodo couldn't have hidden his identity since presumably only one iPhone 4G has been lost. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7330986/Apple-admits-using-child-labour.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7330986/Apple-ad...
  - maxharris 17y ago
    I do not conflate law with morality; they are distinct and have a definite relationship. The moral for any individual is what is in that person's long-term rational self-interest. Law is a subset - it should only extract justice in the defense of individual rights. So correct, objective laws (good for people) must be moral. Although correct laws necessarily cannot enforce morality (instead, they must be limited to the protection of individual rights), they are limited by morality - they must not criminalize moral actions. -- If someone came to your house and robbed you, would you just say, "Hey, that's life. People are going to rob me, so I just have to accept some losses. I'm not going to defend myself or go to the police"? -- On to Foxconn: Yes, Apple should take responsibility for the Foxconn suicide, along with Dell and Sony, all of whom use the same factory in Shenzhen, where four more employees have since committed suicide. What does taking responsibility entail? Getting more control over Foxconn's security procedures, demanding prosecution of the particular managers that actually forced the suicides, all under threat of halting production and using a different supplier, or manufacturing in a different country if necessary. If that doesn't work, Apple should spend some bucks and literally advertise the problem to Americans - take the moral high ground and say "we took the lead in quitting these guys, and our competitors - Dell and Sony - did not." If they don't do this, and the people making the devices keep getting murdered (forced suicide), they lose legitimacy morally. Morality is essential in business, because without it, long-term profitability cannot be achieved.
ugh 17y ago
Report stuff about Apple, not about Apple engineers. I can understand if you think it's ok for Gizmodo to buy the lost/stolen iPhone (I don't agree), I absoluly can't understand how you can think it is ok for Gizmodo to drag Gray into the public.

wisty 17y ago

There is a slight upside - Apple might not let him go because they don't want to wear any flack from the media. Still, that would put him in a pretty difficult position. Having the perception that you were kept on just to avoid PR problems isn't an ideal situation. I'd rather be sacked quietly and look for a job elsewhere, or be quietly kept on; whatever the boss though best. I'm sure that the reporters justify it to themselves on that basis. But they haven't looked ahead.

jacquesm 17y ago
If Apple lets their prototypes out of the house in conditions that are 'real life' then they have to live with the fact that in 'real life' phones get lost and get stolen. What bugs me is that I can't imagine that every phone that is lost or stolen makes it's way to gizmodo, so how on earth did they find out that that phone was a prototype? Or did they really have a bunch of 'misses' before this 'hit'. Apple should do exactly nothing about this, unless the prototype iphone was taken off their facility without their permission. If it was then the risk is theirs. Every day there must be thousands of phones that are lost, and it's not like it's a big deal anyway. Just another incremental upgrade to a consumer device, who cares.
- jonknee 17y ago
  > What bugs me is that I can't imagine that every phone that is lost or stolen makes it's way to gizmodo, so how on earth did they find out that that phone was a prototype? Or did they really have a bunch of 'misses' before this 'hit'. It looked different. iPhones only come in a couple designs, it's not hard to tell when it's different.
  - derefr 17y ago
    It was wearing a case that made it look like a 3GS (in a case), though. You'd have to pick it up and stare at it to realize it had an extra camera cutout, etc. You'd have to be planning to do something with the phone already (steal it, or just return it to its owner) to take that long/hard a look.
- 17y ago

nearestneighbor 17y ago

> The engineer in question is a good friend of several of us here at HN. Do you mean that literally, or similar to "Ich bin ein Berliner"? If the former, that's a rather incredible coincidence, wouldn't you say?

qeorge 17y ago
Yes, I mean it literally. And no, not really a coincidence - he's got a lot of friends.
- 9oliYQjP 17y ago
  I honestly think Steve Jobs should make light of the situation and have your friend walk the production version of the new iPhone onto the stage at June's keynote. It was the plastering of this guy's poor face and name across their site that pushed me over the edge into boycotting Gizmodo. Didn't they run around at Comdex a few years back randomly turning off displays with one of those IR tv blasters? We are talking about a bunch of immature douchebags here.
hugh3 17y ago
Not that much of a coincidence. It's a pretty big site, and a pretty small world.

cosmicray 17y ago

imho, Apple should find a way to work Gray into the 4G iPhone announcement event. Maybe have him appear with the phone for Steve, that Steve 'misplaced'. Consider it a silent finger to gawker.