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I really like this french article detailing how public opinion about "which nation contributed the most to victory in WW2" has changed dramatically over time in

I really like this french article detailing how public opinion about "which nation contributed the most to victory in WW2" has changed dramatically over time in France. In May 1945, 57% of the respondents claimed the USSR, 20% the USA, 12% the UK. By 2015, the figures are 23% USSR, 54% USA, 18% UK. Wonder if American WWII movies have anything to do with it? http://www.les-crises.fr/la-fabrique-du-cretin-defaite-nazis/ http://www.les-crises.fr/la-fabrique-du-cretin-defaite-nazis...

jernfrost 10y ago
Back then people knew more about what happened. The generation that grew up afterwards was fed pro-American propaganda. I know because I grew up in the 80s and remember the school books. We got told lies about how e.g. the Soviets killed children in Afghanistan with bombs shaped like toys. Because of the threat of communism most western democracies saw it as important to emphasize American contribution over the USSR.
- tpm 10y ago
  More likely there isn't one single true answer to this question - it's open to different interpretations.
  - jernfrost 10y ago
    What isn't open to interpretation however is that it was a joint effort to win WWII. Many nations contributed to that victory. I simply think it is arrogant and insulting for Americans to claim they saved everybody in WWII. It implies that America single handedly came in and did the job. Russia and Britain also saved America in that sense. The implication of this line or reasoning is also that all of Europe and the USSR would have become Nazi Germany. That would have created an enormously powerful empire which together with Japan had been a serious threat to America. It is not like it would have been irrelevant to the US what the outcome would have been.
- darawk 10y ago
  The soviets did kill children with bombs shaped like toys. Those bombs were called the PFM-1. They may not have done this intentionally, but they absolutely did do it.
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    > PFM-1 (Russian: ПФМ-1, short for противопехотная фугасная мина - anti-infantry high-explosive mine; NATO name: Green parrot, also known as butterfly mine) is a land mine of Soviet production, very similar to the BLU-43 US Army landmine. Both devices are very similar in shape and principles, although they use different explosives. > BLU-43/B and BLU-44/B (Bomb Live Unit) "Dragontooth" were air-dropped cluster-type land mines used by the United States during the Vietnam War. > The use of Dragontooth mines in Vietnam went largely unnoticed, likely as a product of its essentially classified usage primarily in Laos as part of Operation Igloo White. Production of the system had ceased by 1970, and it was predicted that existing stocks would be exhausted by the end of 1971. > In stark contrast to the lack of public commentary on the Dragontooth system, the subsequent Soviet analogue, the PFM-1, spurred a lot of controversy after being used in Afghanistan during the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, being a key element leading to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. Sounds like the "killing children" line, used exclusively against the soviets, would be a bit loaded
    - darawk 10y ago
      Two points in response: 1. The US also doing something does not invalidate my correction. 2. The USSR did this after the US had already done it. The first person who deploys weapons like these can claim ignorance of the issue of children picking them up - at least for a while. The second, much less so. That being said, both sides hands are clearly dirty in this case.
  - jernfrost 10y ago
    There as cluster bombs that look slightly like dolls if you use a lot of imagination. But in no way as this deliberate as my 80s textbooks and teachers in Norway claimed. The Soviets had nothing to gain by such a policy. This was propaganda served by the US that we swallowed up in Norway and retold to our kids. Ironically, the Soviets told the same kind of propaganda to their kids about US involvement in Nicaragua where they used similar types of cluster bombs.

jernfrost 10y ago

Back then people knew more about what happened. The generation that grew up afterwards was fed pro-American propaganda. I know because I grew up in the 80s and remember the school books. We got told lies about how e.g. the Soviets killed children in Afghanistan with bombs shaped like toys. Because of the threat of communism most western democracies saw it as important to emphasize American contribution over the USSR.

tpm 10y ago
More likely there isn't one single true answer to this question - it's open to different interpretations.
- jernfrost 10y ago
  What isn't open to interpretation however is that it was a joint effort to win WWII. Many nations contributed to that victory. I simply think it is arrogant and insulting for Americans to claim they saved everybody in WWII. It implies that America single handedly came in and did the job. Russia and Britain also saved America in that sense. The implication of this line or reasoning is also that all of Europe and the USSR would have become Nazi Germany. That would have created an enormously powerful empire which together with Japan had been a serious threat to America. It is not like it would have been irrelevant to the US what the outcome would have been.
darawk 10y ago
The soviets did kill children with bombs shaped like toys. Those bombs were called the PFM-1. They may not have done this intentionally, but they absolutely did do it.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  > PFM-1 (Russian: ПФМ-1, short for противопехотная фугасная мина - anti-infantry high-explosive mine; NATO name: Green parrot, also known as butterfly mine) is a land mine of Soviet production, very similar to the BLU-43 US Army landmine. Both devices are very similar in shape and principles, although they use different explosives. > BLU-43/B and BLU-44/B (Bomb Live Unit) "Dragontooth" were air-dropped cluster-type land mines used by the United States during the Vietnam War. > The use of Dragontooth mines in Vietnam went largely unnoticed, likely as a product of its essentially classified usage primarily in Laos as part of Operation Igloo White. Production of the system had ceased by 1970, and it was predicted that existing stocks would be exhausted by the end of 1971. > In stark contrast to the lack of public commentary on the Dragontooth system, the subsequent Soviet analogue, the PFM-1, spurred a lot of controversy after being used in Afghanistan during the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, being a key element leading to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. Sounds like the "killing children" line, used exclusively against the soviets, would be a bit loaded
  - darawk 10y ago
    Two points in response: 1. The US also doing something does not invalidate my correction. 2. The USSR did this after the US had already done it. The first person who deploys weapons like these can claim ignorance of the issue of children picking them up - at least for a while. The second, much less so. That being said, both sides hands are clearly dirty in this case.
- jernfrost 10y ago
  There as cluster bombs that look slightly like dolls if you use a lot of imagination. But in no way as this deliberate as my 80s textbooks and teachers in Norway claimed. The Soviets had nothing to gain by such a policy. This was propaganda served by the US that we swallowed up in Norway and retold to our kids. Ironically, the Soviets told the same kind of propaganda to their kids about US involvement in Nicaragua where they used similar types of cluster bombs.