5 ms·

The educational system is a scapegoat for far bigger and more entrenched problems.

by harryh 10y ago

jowiar 10y ago
"Scapegoat" is probably less accurate than "symptom". In that, in many states (i.e. Kansas), the education system has been deliberately hamstrung by people empowered by the "entrenched problems".
adamnemecek 10y ago
I'm not sure I really want to argue about this but fundamentally I think that you might be thinking that fixing the educational system means making the schools on the wrong side of tracks perform as well as the schools on the other side. It's definitely not that simple, the system as a whole is somewhat flawed.
- harryh 10y ago
  I certainly understand the desire to not argue with strangers on the internet. :)
Florin_Andrei 10y ago
Exactly. I strongly suggest to speak with some actual teachers, instead of blindly relying on ridiculous propaganda. The problem is not the system, the problem is social mobility. Poor kids don't do well in school because their families and their environment don't value education. They perceive (correctly, BTW, from a statistical perspective) that if you're born poor, there isn't much you can do. You're gonna die poor anyway. So why worry about school? Families don't care (exceptions do exist, of course), peers look down upon you if you're "bookish", it's a vicious cycle. There's a lack of hope among those at the bottom. No amount of educational reform will fix that. People know they're in a social straightjacket from birth. Fix whatever systemic problems keep America's social mobility so low, and the aforementioned issues will get a lot better.
- peller 10y ago
  > Poor kids don't do well in school because their families and their environment don't value education. Have you considered the possibility that the educational system doesn't value the needs of the poor?
  - vixen99 10y ago
    And if it did, how would that work or operate?
    - peller 10y ago
      What I was getting at is that the subject matter often isn't applicable to helping them solve their specific problems. Education (curriculums) shouldn't be one-size-fits-all.
      - Kalium 10y ago
        What subject matters do you think are substantially neglected by the American educational system that fails to reflect the needs of the poor? How should curricula be changed? What specific problems are unaddressed?
        peller 10y ago
        Well I imagine the needs of inner-city-poor and rural-poor are often different, to pick two extremes. But I myself have never lived either of those lives, and I've only interacted with the rural-poor (through volunteer organizations). So, I can't really know their needs. But where I'd start, is with what I might call the "forbidden subjects" - stuff you and I probably learned from our families, if we were lucky. Interpersonal relationship skills, managing personal finances, and probably most importantly, mental patterns/attitudes/habits/priorities for more effective use of the mind. (Because complacency is effectively the "default state" of the amygdala. And combined with ignorance of the mind's ways, it can only stay that way.) If you can stomach some underground hip hip, here's a track by Dead Prez for one anecdotal inner-city perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8IUbVQRqAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8IUbVQRqAk
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

The educational system is a scapegoat for far bigger and more entrenched problems.

by harryh 10y ago

The educational system is a scapegoat for far bigger and more entrenched problems.

"Scapegoat" is probably less accurate than "symptom". In that, in many states (i.e. Kansas), the education system has been deliberately hamstrung by people empowered by the "entrenched problems".

adamnemecek 10y ago

I'm not sure I really want to argue about this but fundamentally I think that you might be thinking that fixing the educational system means making the schools on the wrong side of tracks perform as well as the schools on the other side. It's definitely not that simple, the system as a whole is somewhat flawed.

harryh 10y ago
I certainly understand the desire to not argue with strangers on the internet. :)

Florin_Andrei 10y ago

Exactly. I strongly suggest to speak with some actual teachers, instead of blindly relying on ridiculous propaganda. The problem is not the system, the problem is social mobility. Poor kids don't do well in school because their families and their environment don't value education. They perceive (correctly, BTW, from a statistical perspective) that if you're born poor, there isn't much you can do. You're gonna die poor anyway. So why worry about school? Families don't care (exceptions do exist, of course), peers look down upon you if you're "bookish", it's a vicious cycle. There's a lack of hope among those at the bottom. No amount of educational reform will fix that. People know they're in a social straightjacket from birth. Fix whatever systemic problems keep America's social mobility so low, and the aforementioned issues will get a lot better.

peller 10y ago
> Poor kids don't do well in school because their families and their environment don't value education. Have you considered the possibility that the educational system doesn't value the needs of the poor?
- vixen99 10y ago
  And if it did, how would that work or operate?
  - peller 10y ago
    What I was getting at is that the subject matter often isn't applicable to helping them solve their specific problems. Education (curriculums) shouldn't be one-size-fits-all.
    - Kalium 10y ago
      What subject matters do you think are substantially neglected by the American educational system that fails to reflect the needs of the poor? How should curricula be changed? What specific problems are unaddressed?
      - peller 10y ago
        Well I imagine the needs of inner-city-poor and rural-poor are often different, to pick two extremes. But I myself have never lived either of those lives, and I've only interacted with the rural-poor (through volunteer organizations). So, I can't really know their needs. But where I'd start, is with what I might call the "forbidden subjects" - stuff you and I probably learned from our families, if we were lucky. Interpersonal relationship skills, managing personal finances, and probably most importantly, mental patterns/attitudes/habits/priorities for more effective use of the mind. (Because complacency is effectively the "default state" of the amygdala. And combined with ignorance of the mind's ways, it can only stay that way.) If you can stomach some underground hip hip, here's a track by Dead Prez for one anecdotal inner-city perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8IUbVQRqAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8IUbVQRqAk

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]