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Snowden's revelations about domestic spying made the US safer. Snowden's revelations about non-domestic spying made the US weaker. If all he'd done was the fir

by vaadu 10y ago

Snowden's revelations about domestic spying made the US safer. Snowden's revelations about non-domestic spying made the US weaker. If all he'd done was the first he should be pardoned. Because he did the second he should get life without parole.

serg_chernata 10y ago
There is no evidence that it caused any harm though. Can you explain why you feel that way or show some evidence?
- piptastic 10y ago
  That's not really a valid reason to not prosecute people though. If I run a red light and no one happened to be going through the intersection besides me, should I still not be ticketed?
  - serg_chernata 10y ago
    Agreed, though as a counter point to OP I would propose that if Snowden only revealed information about our international operations then he should have been prosecuted. However, his act was twofold. Arguably 50% heroic and 50% of betrayal. There is no good to your running of a red light. This is not a proper comparison.
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      That's not your, or Snowden's worry. The law doesn't say you have to reveal criminal activity - only IF you feel it's a benefit overall. If the organization had real internal controls, or was under the control of government at all, Snowden could have used those channels and could have been expected to. But as soon as he fears they won't work he must do whatever he can. The obligation to blow the whistle doesn't end when it's hard, or when your friends get hurt.
  - Zigurd 10y ago
    It is a good reason to deemphasize such prosecutions. Federal prosecutions are expensive and take resources away from cases where material damage is involved. It's not like writing a traffic ticket.
Zigurd 10y ago
The US is only weaker if you think a global political monoculture isn't brittle and dangerous. Having the power to maintain the status quo is not the same as strength or safety. Nor is it even optimal for the economy.
EdHominem 10y ago
When a mobster is busted we lay all their papers out in courts and we ruin all aspects of their life as part of the punishment for their primary crimes. We can expect no less when we let our public officials be criminal. If we want our primary security apparatus to not be diagnosed on TV we should make sure it's legal and legit. Snowden literally had no legal choice. He is required by his oaths (as we all are morally) to reveal ongoing criminal activity, especially institutional crimes. If you ever get there, I hope you realize that the treasonous path is to keep your mouth closed.
gribbly 10y ago
I've never understood patriotism, what is that make you identify with a piece of the earth's surface which has due to haphazard historical events fallen under a particular governance.
- daveFNbuck 10y ago
  Wanting the country you live in to be safer and stronger against outside threats is not patriotism. It's just basic self-interest. Even the least patriotic people generally prefer not to be murdered by terrorists.
  - gribbly 10y ago
    >Even the least patriotic people generally prefer not to be murdered by terrorists. What exactly in Snowdens leaks would increase the chance of terrorist attacks on the US ?
    - daveFNbuck 10y ago
      I didn't say they would, but I think that the person you're accusing of patriotism did.
  - bahjoite 10y ago
    > Wanting the country you live in to be safer and stronger against outside threats is not patriotism. It's just basic self-interest. Wanting the country you live in to be safer and stronger is certainly not basic self-interest: that would be wanting oneself to be safer and stronger, without regard for anyone else. It is certainly nationalism, if not quite patriotism. The parent responded to "made the US safer" and "made the US weaker". The point is that there is a bigger picture than the question of the USA's safety or strength: the effect that the Snowden's revelations have had on all humans when taken together. > Even the least patriotic people generally prefer not to be murdered by terrorists You seem to be saying that the desire not to be killed by terrorists is a good reason for the citizens of one nation to be want it to be safer and stronger than another nation. Perhaps the desire not to be murdered by terrorists is a good reason for all nations to be, together, safer and stronger.
acqq 10y ago
The journalists decided what to publish, not Snowden. It seems there isn't any case that resulted from that. The US would until now try to get Greenwald if they thought they had a case against him.

by vaadu 10y ago

serg_chernata 10y ago

There is no evidence that it caused any harm though. Can you explain why you feel that way or show some evidence?

piptastic 10y ago
That's not really a valid reason to not prosecute people though. If I run a red light and no one happened to be going through the intersection besides me, should I still not be ticketed?
- serg_chernata 10y ago
  Agreed, though as a counter point to OP I would propose that if Snowden only revealed information about our international operations then he should have been prosecuted. However, his act was twofold. Arguably 50% heroic and 50% of betrayal. There is no good to your running of a red light. This is not a proper comparison.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    That's not your, or Snowden's worry. The law doesn't say you have to reveal criminal activity - only IF you feel it's a benefit overall. If the organization had real internal controls, or was under the control of government at all, Snowden could have used those channels and could have been expected to. But as soon as he fears they won't work he must do whatever he can. The obligation to blow the whistle doesn't end when it's hard, or when your friends get hurt.
- Zigurd 10y ago
  It is a good reason to deemphasize such prosecutions. Federal prosecutions are expensive and take resources away from cases where material damage is involved. It's not like writing a traffic ticket.

Zigurd 10y ago

The US is only weaker if you think a global political monoculture isn't brittle and dangerous. Having the power to maintain the status quo is not the same as strength or safety. Nor is it even optimal for the economy.

EdHominem 10y ago

When a mobster is busted we lay all their papers out in courts and we ruin all aspects of their life as part of the punishment for their primary crimes. We can expect no less when we let our public officials be criminal. If we want our primary security apparatus to not be diagnosed on TV we should make sure it's legal and legit. Snowden literally had no legal choice. He is required by his oaths (as we all are morally) to reveal ongoing criminal activity, especially institutional crimes. If you ever get there, I hope you realize that the treasonous path is to keep your mouth closed.

gribbly 10y ago

I've never understood patriotism, what is that make you identify with a piece of the earth's surface which has due to haphazard historical events fallen under a particular governance.

daveFNbuck 10y ago
Wanting the country you live in to be safer and stronger against outside threats is not patriotism. It's just basic self-interest. Even the least patriotic people generally prefer not to be murdered by terrorists.
- gribbly 10y ago
  >Even the least patriotic people generally prefer not to be murdered by terrorists. What exactly in Snowdens leaks would increase the chance of terrorist attacks on the US ?
  - daveFNbuck 10y ago
    I didn't say they would, but I think that the person you're accusing of patriotism did.
- bahjoite 10y ago
  > Wanting the country you live in to be safer and stronger against outside threats is not patriotism. It's just basic self-interest. Wanting the country you live in to be safer and stronger is certainly not basic self-interest: that would be wanting oneself to be safer and stronger, without regard for anyone else. It is certainly nationalism, if not quite patriotism. The parent responded to "made the US safer" and "made the US weaker". The point is that there is a bigger picture than the question of the USA's safety or strength: the effect that the Snowden's revelations have had on all humans when taken together. > Even the least patriotic people generally prefer not to be murdered by terrorists You seem to be saying that the desire not to be killed by terrorists is a good reason for the citizens of one nation to be want it to be safer and stronger than another nation. Perhaps the desire not to be murdered by terrorists is a good reason for all nations to be, together, safer and stronger.

acqq 10y ago

The journalists decided what to publish, not Snowden. It seems there isn't any case that resulted from that. The US would until now try to get Greenwald if they thought they had a case against him.