4 ms·

Generally speaking a product company can't thrive off supply chain innovations. The market will move to commodification at some point.

IBM 10y ago
If this were true Apple shouldn't be able to sell computers for a premium, and yet they do. 40 years should have been enough for commodification to take effect.
- frankydp 10y ago
  Apple in the PC market is a single digit percentage point(7.2) participant. Premium niche is a functional business model, but broad market speaking, commodification has taken place, in that 25% of the PC market is Other in most reports. That number is important because it implies that 25% of the entire market is "small" actors that have been able to leverage commodification. If you also consider Dell as a commodity vendor then that group jumps to 40%.
  - IBM 10y ago
    The parent implies that it will eventually drive the margins down. If you're saying that commodification has already taken place then it's even more impressive that Apple's line of computers can still command a premium and indicates that they have some kind of durable competitive advantage.
    - frankydp 10y ago
      I agree. Premium niche is a very effective business model, and Apple does apply that strategy very well. I was only suggesting that supply chain optimization is more a function of profitability for Apple and less of a market advantage due to total market commodification.
    - zekevermillion 10y ago
      It's almost like Apple has uncovered a new kind of product microeconomics -- luxury commodity, a commodity product where luxury pricing increases demand. It's a cheap way for consumers to signal upscale fashion. (This is me appreciating the enemy's skill from afar. I do not personally like Apple products. Just as I prefer wearing paint-stained sweatpants and 10-year-old extra-large t-shirts, as well as running linux on 8-year-old workstation. My favorite "smart"phone is a blackberry classic.)
      - boulos 10y ago
        I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic, but that's called a Veblen Good (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good) and many luxury items follow the same pattern.
        nsp 10y ago
        Nitpick, luxury goods and veblen goods are distinct concepts. Veblen goods are generally considered theoretical (with the possible exception of things like stocks). For Apple laptops to be Veblen goods, you would have to believe that they would sell fewer laptops if they were cheaper, not just makes less money. You could make the case that it's all brand fetishism and Apple would sell fewer MacBooks than they do now if they cost $500 rather than $1000, but i find that fairly implausible.
- Tepix 10y ago
  What if they are merely still selling computers at a premium because they merely used to be better and are slowly falling behind?
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    For me, I want the OS. I grew tired of maintaining my Linux install (and the various hardware issues), and grew tired of Windows (especially as a non-gamer). I wanted a unix-environment, OS X was the easiest way to get that in a reliable, portable system. And then, through the network effect, my family followed suit because I'm their IT guy (actually, one of the reasons I quit Windows too, but they just keep dragging me back). But the premium isn't too bad, IMO. I've had my current laptop (MBP, retina display) since 2012 and it's still going strong, even the original battery. I recognize that this is partially because we seem to have plateaued a bit on desktop/laptop capabilities, but I have no major issue running anything I want to run on it (modulo games, whicH I don't play so is a non-issue for me). I've also been able to reliably sell their laptops for a decent amount (could probably get more, but always sell to friends) and end up with a discounted new laptop as a result. EDIT: Further, my experience with non-tech owners of Apple laptops versus PC laptops has been interesting. I don't know if the PC laptops are just more fragile, or if the Apple owners are more conscientious. But Apple laptops seem to last much longer and end up in much better shape (less the power cords) with "average" users. But this is purely anecdotal. A large part of that difference is probably just that a $1000-2000 PC laptop would last just as well as the same price Apple, but more PC laptop owners get the $300-500 sale price machines from Best Buy.
  - MaysonL 10y ago
    So who's making better mobile chips than their A series of processors? Or even chips as good?
    - Tepix 10y ago
      Their mobile chips aren't in their computers (i.e. laptops or desktops) ... yet.
al_biglan 10y ago
I was going to say something along these lines (tho more of a "cautionary tale" than absolute "no company can") Having worked for Nokia when they absolutely dominated the supply chain for their phones, this indeed gets you to the position of "top 10 brand in the world" but it isn't enough to keep you there. That said, I think Apple it much better positioned than Nokia and much more focused on continual disrupting their own position (ipad to phone to tablet to watch is an interesting morph away from single product). So long as they can keep innovating and dominate the supply chain, I believe they will have some long legs.
sangnoir 10y ago
> Generally speaking a product company can't thrive off supply chain innovations. The market will move to commodification at some point To stave off commodification, the said company can pivot into a fashion company where the value is derived from the brand itself. Instead of differentiating by feature, it can differentiate by 'brand value' and encourage repeat-sales by ecnouraging seasonal fashion cycles. "Rose Go^w^wTeal is the color of the season this year. If you don't have a teal device, you're so last year"
- rjsw 10y ago
  It seems to me that Apple wouldn't have recruited Angela Ahrendts if it wasn't serious about following this strategy.
itomato 10y ago
This is why they have invested so heavily in silicon fab and machining.

IBM 10y ago

If this were true Apple shouldn't be able to sell computers for a premium, and yet they do. 40 years should have been enough for commodification to take effect.

frankydp 10y ago
Apple in the PC market is a single digit percentage point(7.2) participant. Premium niche is a functional business model, but broad market speaking, commodification has taken place, in that 25% of the PC market is Other in most reports. That number is important because it implies that 25% of the entire market is "small" actors that have been able to leverage commodification. If you also consider Dell as a commodity vendor then that group jumps to 40%.
- IBM 10y ago
  The parent implies that it will eventually drive the margins down. If you're saying that commodification has already taken place then it's even more impressive that Apple's line of computers can still command a premium and indicates that they have some kind of durable competitive advantage.
  - frankydp 10y ago
    I agree. Premium niche is a very effective business model, and Apple does apply that strategy very well. I was only suggesting that supply chain optimization is more a function of profitability for Apple and less of a market advantage due to total market commodification.
  - zekevermillion 10y ago
    It's almost like Apple has uncovered a new kind of product microeconomics -- luxury commodity, a commodity product where luxury pricing increases demand. It's a cheap way for consumers to signal upscale fashion. (This is me appreciating the enemy's skill from afar. I do not personally like Apple products. Just as I prefer wearing paint-stained sweatpants and 10-year-old extra-large t-shirts, as well as running linux on 8-year-old workstation. My favorite "smart"phone is a blackberry classic.)
    - boulos 10y ago
      I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic, but that's called a Veblen Good (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good) and many luxury items follow the same pattern.
      - nsp 10y ago
        Nitpick, luxury goods and veblen goods are distinct concepts. Veblen goods are generally considered theoretical (with the possible exception of things like stocks). For Apple laptops to be Veblen goods, you would have to believe that they would sell fewer laptops if they were cheaper, not just makes less money. You could make the case that it's all brand fetishism and Apple would sell fewer MacBooks than they do now if they cost $500 rather than $1000, but i find that fairly implausible.
Tepix 10y ago
What if they are merely still selling computers at a premium because they merely used to be better and are slowly falling behind?
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  For me, I want the OS. I grew tired of maintaining my Linux install (and the various hardware issues), and grew tired of Windows (especially as a non-gamer). I wanted a unix-environment, OS X was the easiest way to get that in a reliable, portable system. And then, through the network effect, my family followed suit because I'm their IT guy (actually, one of the reasons I quit Windows too, but they just keep dragging me back). But the premium isn't too bad, IMO. I've had my current laptop (MBP, retina display) since 2012 and it's still going strong, even the original battery. I recognize that this is partially because we seem to have plateaued a bit on desktop/laptop capabilities, but I have no major issue running anything I want to run on it (modulo games, whicH I don't play so is a non-issue for me). I've also been able to reliably sell their laptops for a decent amount (could probably get more, but always sell to friends) and end up with a discounted new laptop as a result. EDIT: Further, my experience with non-tech owners of Apple laptops versus PC laptops has been interesting. I don't know if the PC laptops are just more fragile, or if the Apple owners are more conscientious. But Apple laptops seem to last much longer and end up in much better shape (less the power cords) with "average" users. But this is purely anecdotal. A large part of that difference is probably just that a $1000-2000 PC laptop would last just as well as the same price Apple, but more PC laptop owners get the $300-500 sale price machines from Best Buy.
- MaysonL 10y ago
  So who's making better mobile chips than their A series of processors? Or even chips as good?
  - Tepix 10y ago
    Their mobile chips aren't in their computers (i.e. laptops or desktops) ... yet.

al_biglan 10y ago

I was going to say something along these lines (tho more of a "cautionary tale" than absolute "no company can") Having worked for Nokia when they absolutely dominated the supply chain for their phones, this indeed gets you to the position of "top 10 brand in the world" but it isn't enough to keep you there. That said, I think Apple it much better positioned than Nokia and much more focused on continual disrupting their own position (ipad to phone to tablet to watch is an interesting morph away from single product). So long as they can keep innovating and dominate the supply chain, I believe they will have some long legs.

sangnoir 10y ago

> Generally speaking a product company can't thrive off supply chain innovations. The market will move to commodification at some point To stave off commodification, the said company can pivot into a fashion company where the value is derived from the brand itself. Instead of differentiating by feature, it can differentiate by 'brand value' and encourage repeat-sales by ecnouraging seasonal fashion cycles. "Rose Go^w^wTeal is the color of the season this year. If you don't have a teal device, you're so last year"

rjsw 10y ago
It seems to me that Apple wouldn't have recruited Angela Ahrendts if it wasn't serious about following this strategy.

itomato 10y ago

This is why they have invested so heavily in silicon fab and machining.