4 ms·

Life without parole is way crueler and inhumane punishment. We either need penal colonies or the ability of the prisoners to request and be granted euthanasia.

xyzzy4 10y ago
So everyone's pet bird that lives in a cage and animals in zoos would be better off dead? Or does your logic only apply to humans and not other species?
- palunon 10y ago
  > Or does your logic only apply to humans and not other species? A lot of things apply to humans and not other species...
- coldtea 10y ago
  Like McDonalds killing cows is OK, but killing a human is murder? Like adopting a stray god and putting them on a leash is OK, but putting some bum on a leash is bad? What kind of silly question is this? Not everything applies to humans and/or all species the same.
noonespecial 10y ago
Or we could try, oh, you know, prisons that aren't torture to be in even for a few days. It's kind of a radical new thing for humanity that we now have the means to provide lives, even meaningful ones, to people who prove themselves too dangerous to live in open society. We should at least give it a try.
- euyyn 10y ago
  As have done many first world countries for a long time.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  So very much this! Not only that, but folks should have a chance at life when they get released. Most folks aren't serving life sentences - it is in the best interest of society that we release folks that can be a good neighbor and good member of society. It definitely isn't impossible to have that as the average standard.
- drakonandor 10y ago
  5 star hotel treatments for lifers seems a little bit silly. Why should they live as Kings after what they did to their victims?
  - noonespecial 10y ago
    So vengeance is what you're after. I can understand and even respect that. The question you might be asking is why the "bleeding hearts" like me aren't. For me at least, that would be because I believe that culpability for actions is a continuum. Hell, I even think sentience is a continuum. At some point, criminal tendencies cross a blurry line from willful malfeasance into mental disability. Because I can't reliably determine this point and I don't trust those passing judgment not to let their prejudices and biases influence their thirst for vengeance, I prefer a system that uses extra caution. We have the material resources to provide meaningful lives to these individuals for their entire natural lives. Not "5 star" accommodations mind you, but far from the hellish gulags we have now. Lashing out in deadly anger feels awesome, I freely admit. But how many are on life sentences for no less?
    - drakonandor 10y ago
      I was referring to those in there for life (to protect society). I don't see it as 'vengeance' if they aren't pampered. There is a broad range between gulag and the Hilton. That being said, those who in short-term should have some environment suited for rehabilitation, which probably includes learning that "wow jail sucks, i will remember that next time before I punch someone". Obviously they should be given the chance for education and employment, but the latest Playstation games might not be a necessity.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
VLM 10y ago
The assumption is we haven't implemented both, resulting in failure. All the criminals are sent to segregated inner cities yet most of the residents are not criminals, leading to all kinds of injustice when the prison guard slash cops shoot to kill inappropriately. Meanwhile the war on drugs has done the usual ineffective civil war thing of making essentially infinite opiate supplies available to anyone who wants that way out. So yeah we're been trying those two ideas for a couple decades and its pretty much sucked for everyone involved.

xyzzy4 10y ago

So everyone's pet bird that lives in a cage and animals in zoos would be better off dead? Or does your logic only apply to humans and not other species?

palunon 10y ago
> Or does your logic only apply to humans and not other species? A lot of things apply to humans and not other species...
coldtea 10y ago
Like McDonalds killing cows is OK, but killing a human is murder? Like adopting a stray god and putting them on a leash is OK, but putting some bum on a leash is bad? What kind of silly question is this? Not everything applies to humans and/or all species the same.

noonespecial 10y ago

Or we could try, oh, you know, prisons that aren't torture to be in even for a few days. It's kind of a radical new thing for humanity that we now have the means to provide lives, even meaningful ones, to people who prove themselves too dangerous to live in open society. We should at least give it a try.

euyyn 10y ago
As have done many first world countries for a long time.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
So very much this! Not only that, but folks should have a chance at life when they get released. Most folks aren't serving life sentences - it is in the best interest of society that we release folks that can be a good neighbor and good member of society. It definitely isn't impossible to have that as the average standard.
drakonandor 10y ago
5 star hotel treatments for lifers seems a little bit silly. Why should they live as Kings after what they did to their victims?
- noonespecial 10y ago
  So vengeance is what you're after. I can understand and even respect that. The question you might be asking is why the "bleeding hearts" like me aren't. For me at least, that would be because I believe that culpability for actions is a continuum. Hell, I even think sentience is a continuum. At some point, criminal tendencies cross a blurry line from willful malfeasance into mental disability. Because I can't reliably determine this point and I don't trust those passing judgment not to let their prejudices and biases influence their thirst for vengeance, I prefer a system that uses extra caution. We have the material resources to provide meaningful lives to these individuals for their entire natural lives. Not "5 star" accommodations mind you, but far from the hellish gulags we have now. Lashing out in deadly anger feels awesome, I freely admit. But how many are on life sentences for no less?
  - drakonandor 10y ago
    I was referring to those in there for life (to protect society). I don't see it as 'vengeance' if they aren't pampered. There is a broad range between gulag and the Hilton. That being said, those who in short-term should have some environment suited for rehabilitation, which probably includes learning that "wow jail sucks, i will remember that next time before I punch someone". Obviously they should be given the chance for education and employment, but the latest Playstation games might not be a necessity.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

VLM 10y ago

The assumption is we haven't implemented both, resulting in failure. All the criminals are sent to segregated inner cities yet most of the residents are not criminals, leading to all kinds of injustice when the prison guard slash cops shoot to kill inappropriately. Meanwhile the war on drugs has done the usual ineffective civil war thing of making essentially infinite opiate supplies available to anyone who wants that way out. So yeah we're been trying those two ideas for a couple decades and its pretty much sucked for everyone involved.