6 ms·

> The number of phone users who care about getting a root shell for their own use is vanishingly small Only a very small number of people care about how /any/

> The number of phone users who care about getting a root shell for their own use is vanishingly small Only a very small number of people care about how /any/ individual piece of technology could be improved, they have have other things to think about. That is a not a valid argument. It would be better to have it by some other means to get root, but it's not as simple as you make it out. Show a user 2 otherwise identical phones, explain that on one phone, they could do things like tethering, and on the other phone, it's restricted because they can't get root, they will choose the one where they can get root.

detaro 10y ago
IMHO the better answer is "buy/recommend phones from manufacturers who give you root access, instead of giving business to companies making vulnerable devices where you can use those vulnerabilities to get root"
alsetmusic 10y ago
However, when presented with the full story (you can get tethering on this phone, but at the cost of security; you can get security on another phone, but at the cost of tethering; and you can get both tethering and security on this third phone, but at a higher price), enough people will opt for option three as to make it at least meaningful to the market, despite those who don't care about security.
zigzigzag 10y ago
Tethering and root access are unconnected: my phone can tether and is unrooted. Maybe if you get your phone from a US carrier these things are related, in which case, buy elsewhere? There really aren't any reasons to try and root an Android phone. If you want to replace the OS with some custom open source build, just use a phone with an unlocked bootloader and go wild. But you can already access so many features and customise so many things without root it hardly seems worth it.
- izacus 10y ago
  But thats his point exactly - one of the phones allows him to get over customer hostile limitations of some corporation and makes his device more useful in his life. The other is controlled by a whim of somoeone who sees you just as a walking wallet.
  - zigzigzag 10y ago
    If the carrier is giving you the device on better terms than an outright purchase then it's not "customer hostile" is it? You can always buy one instead. Your attitude seems to be "I should be able to get a cheap phone from a carrier by agreeing not to tether, and then I should be able to violate that agreement anyway, and this is a totally moral position". Phones are a commodity. You can get them anywhere. Want to tether? Buy a phone and a plan that allows it. Problem solved.
    - izacus 10y ago
      No, my attitude is "I should be able to do with my 5GB dataplan whatever I wish because that's what I pay for and the carrier has no business dictating why my hardware can or cannot do.". And since I live in EU that is an actual reality - my carrier provides the voice and data service and my phone does what I tell it to and I can choose whichever phone I want. Free market as it should be. Which is why it baffles me beyond all limits just why so many smart Americans go out of their way to defend corporate practices that hurt them as customers.
      - nucotano 10y ago
        Read your contract. You don't pay for a "5GB data plan". You pay for a "5GB data plan to be used on your mobile only". Violating your contract is not "free market".
        izacus 10y ago
        Again, I'm not from America. My contract does not say anything so idiotic. I can use my paid data as I wish. Why are you trying so hard to support your telcos decision to make your life worse?
- tmzt 10y ago
  They are not exactly unconnected. Unrestricted root access would let you set up your own iptables rules and direct packets to the cellular network. This is how tethering worked on rooted phones before the carriers offered it as a service. Now you are correct, and carriers responded to those demands from users for mobile networking with (usually metered or priced as an addon) "mobile hotspot" applications. Contrary to your earlier claims, the advanced Android and iPhone user communities are not insignificant and may have played a part in getting demands like these met. Places like androidpolice, and sites like engadget, lifehacks, gizmodo and others cater to this market, and drive popular knowledge of root modifications and jail breaking. Previous incarnations of Cyanogenmod boasted large numbers of downloads in the 100s of thousands if not millions.
gcb0 10y ago
you're taking most out of thin air. let's see: device that sells the free-to-root marketing (even being a lie in this case), Nexus: billions of sales. device that boast root to be impossible, blackberry: zero sales
- gcb0 10y ago
  lol. downvote facts. go hackernews!

detaro 10y ago

IMHO the better answer is "buy/recommend phones from manufacturers who give you root access, instead of giving business to companies making vulnerable devices where you can use those vulnerabilities to get root"

alsetmusic 10y ago

However, when presented with the full story (you can get tethering on this phone, but at the cost of security; you can get security on another phone, but at the cost of tethering; and you can get both tethering and security on this third phone, but at a higher price), enough people will opt for option three as to make it at least meaningful to the market, despite those who don't care about security.

zigzigzag 10y ago

Tethering and root access are unconnected: my phone can tether and is unrooted. Maybe if you get your phone from a US carrier these things are related, in which case, buy elsewhere? There really aren't any reasons to try and root an Android phone. If you want to replace the OS with some custom open source build, just use a phone with an unlocked bootloader and go wild. But you can already access so many features and customise so many things without root it hardly seems worth it.

izacus 10y ago
But thats his point exactly - one of the phones allows him to get over customer hostile limitations of some corporation and makes his device more useful in his life. The other is controlled by a whim of somoeone who sees you just as a walking wallet.
- zigzigzag 10y ago
  If the carrier is giving you the device on better terms than an outright purchase then it's not "customer hostile" is it? You can always buy one instead. Your attitude seems to be "I should be able to get a cheap phone from a carrier by agreeing not to tether, and then I should be able to violate that agreement anyway, and this is a totally moral position". Phones are a commodity. You can get them anywhere. Want to tether? Buy a phone and a plan that allows it. Problem solved.
  - izacus 10y ago
    No, my attitude is "I should be able to do with my 5GB dataplan whatever I wish because that's what I pay for and the carrier has no business dictating why my hardware can or cannot do.". And since I live in EU that is an actual reality - my carrier provides the voice and data service and my phone does what I tell it to and I can choose whichever phone I want. Free market as it should be. Which is why it baffles me beyond all limits just why so many smart Americans go out of their way to defend corporate practices that hurt them as customers.
    - nucotano 10y ago
      Read your contract. You don't pay for a "5GB data plan". You pay for a "5GB data plan to be used on your mobile only". Violating your contract is not "free market".
      - izacus 10y ago
        Again, I'm not from America. My contract does not say anything so idiotic. I can use my paid data as I wish. Why are you trying so hard to support your telcos decision to make your life worse?
tmzt 10y ago
They are not exactly unconnected. Unrestricted root access would let you set up your own iptables rules and direct packets to the cellular network. This is how tethering worked on rooted phones before the carriers offered it as a service. Now you are correct, and carriers responded to those demands from users for mobile networking with (usually metered or priced as an addon) "mobile hotspot" applications. Contrary to your earlier claims, the advanced Android and iPhone user communities are not insignificant and may have played a part in getting demands like these met. Places like androidpolice, and sites like engadget, lifehacks, gizmodo and others cater to this market, and drive popular knowledge of root modifications and jail breaking. Previous incarnations of Cyanogenmod boasted large numbers of downloads in the 100s of thousands if not millions.

gcb0 10y ago

you're taking most out of thin air. let's see: device that sells the free-to-root marketing (even being a lie in this case), Nexus: billions of sales. device that boast root to be impossible, blackberry: zero sales

gcb0 10y ago
lol. downvote facts. go hackernews!