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Number of US overseas military bases: 600+ Number of Russian overseas military bases: 2 I wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power li

Number of US overseas military bases: 600+ Number of Russian overseas military bases: 2 I wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power like the US.

coldtea 10y ago
Because Americans are so used to being told they are the good guys, "the shit", and the world's only saints. Their media (even "serious" media, like the NYT) is the most patriotic in the whole western world. Of course it helps that there's a trillion dollar defense industry to benefit from all of that too. So, when they meddle 10.000 miles from their borders it's their right and they do it "for democracy". But when another country (let's call it R) tries to meddle in a place where actual pro-fascists toppled a voted-for government in a country in its borders, where tons of people with R ethnic origins live -- then they don't have the right. People speak about communist countries propaganda art portraying their leaders as "heroes" -- and it's indeed idiotic. But then again, the US is the only other place where they can produce and watch movies and shows where the President is a hero fighting bad guys with his bare hands (from Air Force One to numerous tv/cable series). And people watch that with a straight face -- in any other western country this would be considered only acceptable for comedy.
- XorNot 10y ago
  Free speech means you can make a movie where the president is the hero as much as you can make a TV series where he is the murdering villain (House of Cards). Neither is state produced and neither got the creators thrown in jail. That's the difference.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - danharaj 10y ago
    The CIA has clandestinely produced cultural propaganda throughout its existence.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Neither is state produced That's my point exactly. People actually enjoy this former shit instead of finding it ludicrous. (The villain one is OK -- and you can find all around the world. After all its an adaptation of a British series, and besides lots of politicians are villains and scumbags). It's the fact that there are people that don't immediately see the former as ludicrous that's strange.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  The US is a sea empire, the Russians are a land empire. Ask the Poles, non-Slavic Central Europeans, people from the "stans" of Central Asia and others about their love of Russia.
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    [deleted]
- makomk 10y ago
  Russia keeps annexing countries. That's not something the US does and it's not something we want major powers to be able to get away with anymore.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Russia keeps annexing countries. In its borders, with ethnic Russian population, and with a long history of being together in the same trans-national entity (USSR), not to mention a history of Crimea being Russian. >That's not something the US does No, it did enough of that in the past. For the last 50+ years it merely invades countries, and intervenes whether it feels like all over the globe.
smitherfield 10y ago
This is false. In addition to Syria, Russia has troops stationed in Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Belarus, Moldova and Vietnam. They had bases in Ukraine, too, but those are now in Russia thanks to their war of aggression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases...
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MichaelMoser123 10y ago
% wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power like the US Anexation of the Crimea and fuelling of a civil war in the Ukraine?
- coldtea 10y ago
  Ukraine was together with Russia as parts of USSR, it's within its borders, and Crimea is a region where a large part of the population is of Russian ethnic origin (and which the rest of Ukrainians don't particularly like). It also had its voted-for government toppled (with the support of foreign powers), and pro-fascists coming into power. It was then that Russia intervened. That's "fueling of a civil war"? How does a country that left places it had absolutely no reason to be, as hell-holes of civil war and destruction say that with a straight face?
  - MichaelMoser123 10y ago
    Russia signed the Budapest memorandum where she promised to honour post soviet state borders. You don't renege international treaties just like that, at least not in Europe. % That's "fueling of a civil war"? Russia also sent arms, volunteers and even regular troops into the conflict, it is a bloody damned proxy war.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      My point is, given the circumstances, it could very well be a full-on war and that would be legit too. It enters a "proxy war" to protect its large ethnic population in a bordering country -- and this only after the voted-for government of said country was toppled, and pro-fascists got into power who don't particularly like that population. For once, those are actual legit national "strategic interests", not "the world is ours so we have strategic interests all over the globe and we will crush anyone who steps on them" ones. The USSR used to do those too of course. But Russia is no USSR, and only a specific world player consistently does those the last 20+ years. Countries that have actually invaded other countries (4 of them in the last 20 years), have countless proxy wars, and leave behind hell holes of civil war and destruction have little basis to criticize. And in general, anybody who criticizes the second case, without criticizing 10 times as strongly the first, is at best a hypocrite.
golergka 10y ago
Ask Georgia, Ukraine, Lithania, Estonia and Finland this. Then try Canada. These 600 bases were welcomed by local governments. Have you noticed how the terms "first world" and "second world" used to designate US and USSR allies respectfully, but now just mean "countries that have it good" and "not so lucky ones"? Curious coincedence.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >These 600 bases were welcomed by local governments. Sure, by the friendly lackeys installed in power. >but now just mean "countries that have it good" and "not so lucky ones"? Curious coincidence. Not that curious. Besides the bad politics of the USSR, those countries were also fought against with all the might of the "first world", not to mention they had a huge colonial history of being held down to boot.
- rahrahrah 10y ago
  You seem to have extensive knowledge about the subject, if you can off the top of your head know that 600 bases were welcomes by local governments. I personally know of only 1, and no one wanted it there. Local government was bullied with thinly veiled suggestions of tariffs (or was it sanctions, I don't remember). It's not a coincidence at all, the US gained more and more power, and the USSR broke down. If you think there's a coincidence there you're not smart enough to be here.
sampo 10y ago
> I wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power like the US. You could ask Ukrainians about that.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rahrahrah 10y ago
  Or Iraqis, Afghans, etc etc etc. I can't even list all the countries the USA occupied since 2000 anymore.

Number of US overseas military bases: 600+ Number of Russian overseas military bases: 2 I wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power like the US.

coldtea 10y ago

Because Americans are so used to being told they are the good guys, "the shit", and the world's only saints. Their media (even "serious" media, like the NYT) is the most patriotic in the whole western world. Of course it helps that there's a trillion dollar defense industry to benefit from all of that too. So, when they meddle 10.000 miles from their borders it's their right and they do it "for democracy". But when another country (let's call it R) tries to meddle in a place where actual pro-fascists toppled a voted-for government in a country in its borders, where tons of people with R ethnic origins live -- then they don't have the right. People speak about communist countries propaganda art portraying their leaders as "heroes" -- and it's indeed idiotic. But then again, the US is the only other place where they can produce and watch movies and shows where the President is a hero fighting bad guys with his bare hands (from Air Force One to numerous tv/cable series). And people watch that with a straight face -- in any other western country this would be considered only acceptable for comedy.

XorNot 10y ago
Free speech means you can make a movie where the president is the hero as much as you can make a TV series where he is the murdering villain (House of Cards). Neither is state produced and neither got the creators thrown in jail. That's the difference.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- danharaj 10y ago
  The CIA has clandestinely produced cultural propaganda throughout its existence.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Neither is state produced That's my point exactly. People actually enjoy this former shit instead of finding it ludicrous. (The villain one is OK -- and you can find all around the world. After all its an adaptation of a British series, and besides lots of politicians are villains and scumbags). It's the fact that there are people that don't immediately see the former as ludicrous that's strange.
Spooky23 10y ago
The US is a sea empire, the Russians are a land empire. Ask the Poles, non-Slavic Central Europeans, people from the "stans" of Central Asia and others about their love of Russia.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
makomk 10y ago
Russia keeps annexing countries. That's not something the US does and it's not something we want major powers to be able to get away with anymore.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Russia keeps annexing countries. In its borders, with ethnic Russian population, and with a long history of being together in the same trans-national entity (USSR), not to mention a history of Crimea being Russian. >That's not something the US does No, it did enough of that in the past. For the last 50+ years it merely invades countries, and intervenes whether it feels like all over the globe.

smitherfield 10y ago

This is false. In addition to Syria, Russia has troops stationed in Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Belarus, Moldova and Vietnam. They had bases in Ukraine, too, but those are now in Russia thanks to their war of aggression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

MichaelMoser123 10y ago

% wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power like the US Anexation of the Crimea and fuelling of a civil war in the Ukraine?

coldtea 10y ago
Ukraine was together with Russia as parts of USSR, it's within its borders, and Crimea is a region where a large part of the population is of Russian ethnic origin (and which the rest of Ukrainians don't particularly like). It also had its voted-for government toppled (with the support of foreign powers), and pro-fascists coming into power. It was then that Russia intervened. That's "fueling of a civil war"? How does a country that left places it had absolutely no reason to be, as hell-holes of civil war and destruction say that with a straight face?
- MichaelMoser123 10y ago
  Russia signed the Budapest memorandum where she promised to honour post soviet state borders. You don't renege international treaties just like that, at least not in Europe. % That's "fueling of a civil war"? Russia also sent arms, volunteers and even regular troops into the conflict, it is a bloody damned proxy war.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    My point is, given the circumstances, it could very well be a full-on war and that would be legit too. It enters a "proxy war" to protect its large ethnic population in a bordering country -- and this only after the voted-for government of said country was toppled, and pro-fascists got into power who don't particularly like that population. For once, those are actual legit national "strategic interests", not "the world is ours so we have strategic interests all over the globe and we will crush anyone who steps on them" ones. The USSR used to do those too of course. But Russia is no USSR, and only a specific world player consistently does those the last 20+ years. Countries that have actually invaded other countries (4 of them in the last 20 years), have countless proxy wars, and leave behind hell holes of civil war and destruction have little basis to criticize. And in general, anybody who criticizes the second case, without criticizing 10 times as strongly the first, is at best a hypocrite.

golergka 10y ago

Ask Georgia, Ukraine, Lithania, Estonia and Finland this. Then try Canada. These 600 bases were welcomed by local governments. Have you noticed how the terms "first world" and "second world" used to designate US and USSR allies respectfully, but now just mean "countries that have it good" and "not so lucky ones"? Curious coincedence.

coldtea 10y ago
>These 600 bases were welcomed by local governments. Sure, by the friendly lackeys installed in power. >but now just mean "countries that have it good" and "not so lucky ones"? Curious coincidence. Not that curious. Besides the bad politics of the USSR, those countries were also fought against with all the might of the "first world", not to mention they had a huge colonial history of being held down to boot.
rahrahrah 10y ago
You seem to have extensive knowledge about the subject, if you can off the top of your head know that 600 bases were welcomes by local governments. I personally know of only 1, and no one wanted it there. Local government was bullied with thinly veiled suggestions of tariffs (or was it sanctions, I don't remember). It's not a coincidence at all, the US gained more and more power, and the USSR broke down. If you think there's a coincidence there you're not smart enough to be here.

sampo 10y ago

> I wonder why people paint Russia as if it was some aggressive power like the US. You could ask Ukrainians about that.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rahrahrah 10y ago
Or Iraqis, Afghans, etc etc etc. I can't even list all the countries the USA occupied since 2000 anymore.