3 ms·

You can disagree what you like, but the fact that a lot of software out there has bugs and these bugs don't stop it from being successful clearly supports the p

by yogthos 10y ago

You can disagree what you like, but the fact that a lot of software out there has bugs and these bugs don't stop it from being successful clearly supports the point the article makes. If catching the types of bugs that static typing prevents resulted in reduced costs of software development, you'd see static typing out-compete dynamic typing. It's really that simple.

tome 10y ago
> If catching the types of bugs that static typing prevents resulted in reduced costs of software development, you'd see static typing out-compete dynamic typing Apart from network effects, inertia, lack of education and awareness, and all the other confounding factors.
- yogthos 10y ago
  The complete and utter lack of empirical evidence with regards to purported benefits of static typing is the real elephant in the room here I think. Considering how long both disciplines have been around, you'd think we'd see some clear benefits by now. Yet, here we are swapping anecdotal evidence.
  - wereHamster 10y ago
    The disciplines may have been around for long. But the industry has poured billions into educating people (students in universities) on C, Java, C++, C#. Comparatively little has been invested into educating people how to use and work with good type systems. You're comparing apples and oranges. You can't ask the general developer population how they feel about static vs dynamic typing. The result will be biased towards dynamic because that's the only thing most developers know.
    - yogthos 10y ago
      Conversely, a lot of people have have used dynamic typing in languages like JavaScript and Ruby. Their OO nature encourages creation of many types, while pervasive mutability removes any possibility to do local reasoning about the code. The situation is completely different in functional dynamic languages backed by immutable data structures.
  - tome 10y ago
    Is there much empirical evidence for anything interesting in software development?
    - yogthos 10y ago
      There are lots of studies on the subject, none of them show anything even remotely conclusive. Here are a few examples: https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse590n/10au/hanenberg-oopsla2010.pdf https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse590n/10au/hanen... http://macbeth.cs.ucdavis.edu/lang_study.pdf http://macbeth.cs.ucdavis.edu/lang_study.pdf http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/10668/1/tratt__dynamically_typed_languages.pdf http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/10668/1/tratt__dynamically_...

by yogthos 10y ago

tome 10y ago

> If catching the types of bugs that static typing prevents resulted in reduced costs of software development, you'd see static typing out-compete dynamic typing Apart from network effects, inertia, lack of education and awareness, and all the other confounding factors.

yogthos 10y ago
The complete and utter lack of empirical evidence with regards to purported benefits of static typing is the real elephant in the room here I think. Considering how long both disciplines have been around, you'd think we'd see some clear benefits by now. Yet, here we are swapping anecdotal evidence.
- wereHamster 10y ago
  The disciplines may have been around for long. But the industry has poured billions into educating people (students in universities) on C, Java, C++, C#. Comparatively little has been invested into educating people how to use and work with good type systems. You're comparing apples and oranges. You can't ask the general developer population how they feel about static vs dynamic typing. The result will be biased towards dynamic because that's the only thing most developers know.
  - yogthos 10y ago
    Conversely, a lot of people have have used dynamic typing in languages like JavaScript and Ruby. Their OO nature encourages creation of many types, while pervasive mutability removes any possibility to do local reasoning about the code. The situation is completely different in functional dynamic languages backed by immutable data structures.
- tome 10y ago
  Is there much empirical evidence for anything interesting in software development?
  - yogthos 10y ago
    There are lots of studies on the subject, none of them show anything even remotely conclusive. Here are a few examples: https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse590n/10au/hanenberg-oopsla2010.pdf https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse590n/10au/hanen... http://macbeth.cs.ucdavis.edu/lang_study.pdf http://macbeth.cs.ucdavis.edu/lang_study.pdf http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/10668/1/tratt__dynamically_typed_languages.pdf http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/10668/1/tratt__dynamically_...