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Most men have not ever considered becoming a cosmetologist. I suspect that has something to do with many men avoiding jobs that they think might call their se
by whyenot 17y ago
Most men have not ever considered becoming a cosmetologist.
I suspect that has something to do with many men avoiding jobs that they think might call their sexual orientation into question. Many men have gone into cosmetology and done quite well. The reasons so few women go into CS has little to do with worries about their perceived orientation. You are comparing apples to oranges.
- hugh3 17y agoYou don't think it has more to do with the fact that most men have little interest in womens' makeup? I find it hard to believe there are many men out there who'd really like to be cosmetologists but are afraid of being seen as gay. But if you're out there, feel free to reply!
- dgabriel 17y agoThey're probably on cosmetology message boards, not HN.
- hugh3 17y agoI like the idea that the cosmetology boards are filled with male programmers who really wanted to be cosmetologists, and HN is filled with female cosmetologits who really wanted to be programmers.
- whyenot 17y agoCosmetology is a pretty broad term it doesn't just cover "women's makeup." Cosmetologists also do hairstyling, mani/pedicure, and electrolysis for example. You can have flexible hours, instead of working in a cube staring at a screen,you spend your days talking to people and making them look good, you don't need to go to school very long to get your license, and while the wages aren't all that great, if you do a good job and build up a loyal clientele, you can do alright for yourself. Do you honestly believe there aren't some men, even straight men, who wouldn't be interested in a career like that?
- run4yourlives 17y agoI think I get it now: 1) Men's poor choices == men's irrational hangups. 2) Women's poor choices == men's systemic sexism.
- DrSprout 17y agoClassic strawman argument. (Straw woman, dare I say?) You simplistically assume your opponent is attacking men, when the issue is much deeper. Both women and men have the same root for their poor choices: irrational hangups fed by systemic sexism. Both men and women disparage male cosmetologists, and praise females. Both men and women praise male programmers, and disparage females.
- run4yourlives 17y agoAll I did was re-iterate the parent comment in blunt terms, which is supposed to have the effect that it is that comment that is the strawman. I'm making no argument directly, strawman or not. Both women and men have the same root for their poor choices: irrational hangups fed by systemic sexism. Both men and women disparage male cosmetologists, and praise females. Both men and women praise male programmers, and disparage females. These statements are presented as fact but are simply not. What is this "systemic sexism" we're agreeing on being present? I see little to support it within the context of this discussion. All I see is an argument that is essentially: 1) There are few female programmers, 2) The cause is sexism, 3) We must address this. I take issue with point 3 because point 2 has insufficient evidence to support it.
- whyenot 17y agoAll I did was re-iterate the parent comment in blunt terms No you did not. What you did was restate my comment in broader terms, and then attacked your restated version of my comment. I think I get it now: 1) Men's poor choices == men's irrational hangups. 2) Women's poor choices == men's systemic sexism. Don't put words in my mouth and then attack me for what you said. It's intellectually dishonest, the definition of a strawman argument, and I want no part of it.
- nandemo 17y agoOf course women aren't worried about their perceived sexual orientation, but they certainly are about their image (perceived "nerdiness", etc).