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I think I'm going to cut against the grain here a little, but bare with me. A lack of women can still be a problem even if no one in computer science is creati
by mdasen 17y ago
I think I'm going to cut against the grain here a little, but bare with me.
A lack of women can still be a problem even if no one in computer science is creating the problem. For a small theoretical basis, let's assume that people are a product of their genes and their upbringing/social context. So, some people are genetically smarter and will grok computer science better on an inherent level. Likewise, some people will have a parent who is a computer programmer or fall in with a nerdy friend group and that social context will get them more familiar with computer science and get them headed in that direction.
The problem can occur if society is telling women that they shouldn't do computer science. Then we're missing out on people who are inherently gifted computer scientists who have been learned from their social context that they should pursue something else. That's a problem. When people put themselves into sub-optimal careers because of what society tells them they should be like, that's bad.
Think about it: what if Einstein had continued just working as a patent clerk? Our world would be worse for it. The inventor of the birth control pill (Gregory Goodwin Pincus) was a Jew born in Russia. His career path would have never happened due to institutional barriers. Heck, Sergey Brin's father saw that his family wouldn't have such advancement there and left for the US because of it - and now we have Google.
But what we're talking about aren't institutional barriers - in fact, I'd say most of us probably welcome women. We would like more women in computer science and are hugely open to it within the computer science community. But greater society is often telling girls (and boys) to pursue certain things from a young age. Girls are potentially being socialized away from computer science. That's a problem. Even without institutional barriers, there can still be social barriers imposed by our society.
And, while I respect jcnnghm's position (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1276946 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1276946), I have to disagree. The fact that 57% of college graduates are female could point to a problem. If males are being socialized against learning, that's problematic.
The problem is figuring out whether something is inherent or socialized. If something is inherent, fine - life isn't fair or equal. However, socialization matters a lot. Many people overcome socialization. Many others do not. If society has organized itself in such a way that brilliant female potential computer programmers are choosing a different path because they feel it isn't for them, that's a problem. If society has organized itself in such a way that brilliant male potential interior designers are choosing a different path, that's a problem. And our world is socially gendered - we're encouraged to act in certain patterns based on our sex. If society is losing out on brilliant people because they're in positions that aren't their optimal positions due to being socialized not to pursue that position, that's bad for all of us.
Just think if Marie Curie had listened to people telling her "what girls should do" and hadn't pursued physics and chemistry. Then think about all the women who did and the knowledge we all lost out on.
- hugh3 17y agoRight, so we should concentrate on making sure that talented female potential CS types are not deterred from going into CS. But what we can't do is use the fact that few CS types are women as evidence that such deterrence exists. Actually there are features of the CS culture which discourage not only most women but many men from wanting to become programmers. It would be worth fixing these anyway. So guys, go have a shower and find something other than Battlestar Galactica to talk about.
- krakensden 17y agoAaand you're a part of the problem. I could reply with anecdotes about which majors seem to have the most neckbeards, but you know what? It wouldn't matter. Go away.
- amackera 17y agoI don't think the problem evaporates if it's inherent. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, and women are on average more intelligent than men. If that's the case, we should still run programs to encourage men to explore higher learning. I guess what I mean to say is that regardless of what the source of the problem is, the solutions are the same. Battling against problems of socialization is done the same was as fighting against problems of inherent difference.