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Business startup ideas are essentially experiments in economic theory. Yet HN comments are vastly inferior to Reddit's when regarding anything to do with econo

Business startup ideas are essentially experiments in economic theory. Yet HN comments are vastly inferior to Reddit's when regarding anything to do with economics. It didn't used to be this way, and I kind of miss the HN of old... where logic and fearlessness were valued more than affiliation or keeping up of brand appearances. I've been finding it increasingly disconcerting that the incentive here lately has been to discredit or silence (bury) comments from anybody whose opinion points out something like: yeah -- Airbnb's "business model" might be creating way more more problems than it's claiming to solve. Or that collusion in and among YC-funded companies might (or maybe should) yield some Antitrust issues. The tech commentary can be pretty good, and there are plenty of active HNers whose opinions I respect. However, it is leaning heavy on becoming selection-biased and just plain mean to anybody with an original idea.

VodkaHaze 10y ago
Reddit is a swamp of filth wrt economics comments. Basically all the subreddits except /r/academiceconomics, /r/badeconomics, /r/econpapers are awful. I'm friends with the mods of /r/economics and they have a really hard time reigning in the masses of ideologues (on all sides) ruining what should remain pure economics discussions.
- tptacek 10y ago
  Reddit and HN make an interesting comparison. Reddit's highs are really high, far higher than HN's, often skirting the level of "so good as to be newsworthy". But Reddit's lows --- and I don't mean trolling and harassment, I mean the lower bounds of normal conversation there --- are much lower. I think the median HN comment is better, by a lot, than the median Reddit comment. I think you can extend the same judgement out to entire threads --- the best Reddit threads being so much better than HN's that it's hard to even imagine what HN could do differently to compete, and the median HN thread being better than the median Reddit thread. Another interesting thing is that the comparison would probably fall apart completely if not for the heavily-moderated subreddits that produce the best comments. If the Reddit comment cohorts included only the lightly moderated subreddits, HN would probably win on all metrics other than volume and diversity of topics.
  - toxican 10y ago
    While I still think HN probably has the better median, the quality of what you're exposed to on reddit is mostly up to you. Ditch the defaults and Reddit's median skyrockets. Ditch some of the more popular non-defaults, it skyrockets some more. Start building a list of well-moderated subreddits with a strong sense of community, and it jumps some more. Not that you're doing this with your comment, but it has always struck me as odd to treat reddit like it's a single website with a single experience for all users. Yes, there's a base, universal experience, but it's truly up to the user to tailor that experience into what they want. You want memes and fart jokes? There are subs for that. You want to look at breathtaking photos? There are (poorly named) subs for that. You want to discuss why obscure Warcraft character A is behaving so oddly toward Warcraft character B? There's a sub for that. To me, that will always be Reddit's strength. No matter what reputation it gets, no matter how much shit goes on in the defaults, there's always my little specialty subreddits filled with meaningful content to consume.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      So that's the obvious response, and I agree, I think --- the comparison does get trickier if you take just, say, AskHistorians versus HN (there are casual Redditisms condoned even on well-moderated subreddits that are annoying enough to keep the comparison tricky). But if you compare the basket of subreddits relevant to HN --- programming, crypto, etc --- right now, I feel like HN is winning handily. Reddit only starts crushing HN when you broaden out into topics that aren't really in HN's bailiwick.
      - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
        I find /r/crypto much better than HN for crypto discussions; you have more than one crypto person there ( as opposed to essentially just you).
        cpach 10y ago
        AFAIK HN has more than one qualified crypto persons.
- AlexCoventry 10y ago
  What's an example of a pure economics discussion?
  - VodkaHaze 10y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/58tf3h/the_gold_discussion_sticky_come_ask_questions_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/58tf3h/the_go...
- ranit 10y ago
  > Basically all the subreddits except /r/academiceconomics, /r/badeconomics, /r/econpapers are awful. You probably mean "Basically all the subreddits related to economics except ..."
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
  > they have a really hard time reigning in Reigning monarchs have it hard these days. Not that reining stubborn mules is much better. (Pet peeve, but really paying forward a good correction someone gifted me a few weeks ago. Otherwise quit, really ;)
- yxhuvud 10y ago
  Regarding /r/economics, if you find it bad now you should have seen it before. I for one doesn't miss the Austrian bullshit that used to be very common there.
- kuschku 10y ago
  > /r/badeconomics The subreddit arguing that it’s reasonable to give companies power over democratically legitimated governments? No thanks. This is a non-negotiable requirement, no non-democratic entity should have power over the highest democratic entity. That’s the fundamental issue that makes traditional ISDS problematic, and why ICS and the new ISDS alternative in CETA were created in the first place. But /r/badeconomics ignores that entire political problematic.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - VodkaHaze 10y ago
    This: > The subreddit arguing that it’s reasonable to give companies power over democratically legitimated governments Is a massive strawman if you're referring to ISDS (which is what it seems). If you want a trade agreement, the terms need enforcement to be unilateral. But political actors in each respective countries will be incentivized not to respect that by internal pressures. So there needs to be a way to settle those disputes, or else you might as well not have any trade agreement. You can dispute the merits of the current court system; I won't, I'm not an expert in that. But saying that this means "companies have power over democratic countries" is absurd. Go look at supreme court cases in any country. How many are "[person] vs [state]" or "entity vs country"? Democratically elected governments can act in ways just as abhorrent as any other entity; that's why the president doesn't have control over, say, what is constitutional or get to control monetary policy.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      > Go look at supreme court cases The supreme courts are democratically determined and justified. For ISDS courts, half of the judges are appointed by the company that is suing. For ICS courts, all the judges are appointed by the nations taking part. That’s why ICS is acceptable, but ISDS is not. > Democratically elected governments can act in ways just as abhorrent as any other entity Correct, but democratically elected governments are put under checks and balances to prevent them from doing so, foreign companies are not.
jomamaxx 10y ago
"Yet HN comments are vastly inferior to Reddit's when regarding anything to do with economics." I find that HN is pretty weak on economics. But it's a tech blog, so ... And I'm not so sure that 'business ideas' are about economics. Usually, they are simply about doing things using newly available technology, in ways that are obvious in hindsight. I don't think that AirBnB conceptually is rocket science - it's the great experience they provide for everyone. It's really well put together. AirBnB done by a lesser team of people would be something you never heard of.
- unixhero 10y ago
  I beg to differ! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12556160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12556160
  - jomamaxx 10y ago
    I agree there are some smart Econ things here, but when there's a tech article that wavers into Econ elements, I find it all to be lacking, generally. My point: HN folks are not thinking about market power, value chains, supply chains, forms of financing, currency markets - they're thinking about tech. At the risk of getting 100 down-votes - this is best exemplified by Bitcoin. It's a very powerful, cool technology - but almost nobody seems to grasp what it means from a financial perspective, i.e. as a currency, as a store of value etc. etc.. HN readers see it in 'techno-social' terms, i.e. 'cool tech' and 'free from big banks' 'decentralization' etc..
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  "I don't think that AirBnB conceptually is rocket science " People have been doing what they're doing on individual or household level on ad hoc basis for decades. The problem persisted all the way up to AirBnB's time. There was no efficient, integrated, widely-available solution to the problem. They provided that. They exploded in growth followed by other founders looking for similar problems in unrelated markets like business trips. Several markets forming as a result. Basic concept is simple and was always there, though. Just needed someone to solve it in an economical way. :)

VodkaHaze 10y ago

Reddit is a swamp of filth wrt economics comments. Basically all the subreddits except /r/academiceconomics, /r/badeconomics, /r/econpapers are awful. I'm friends with the mods of /r/economics and they have a really hard time reigning in the masses of ideologues (on all sides) ruining what should remain pure economics discussions.

tptacek 10y ago
Reddit and HN make an interesting comparison. Reddit's highs are really high, far higher than HN's, often skirting the level of "so good as to be newsworthy". But Reddit's lows --- and I don't mean trolling and harassment, I mean the lower bounds of normal conversation there --- are much lower. I think the median HN comment is better, by a lot, than the median Reddit comment. I think you can extend the same judgement out to entire threads --- the best Reddit threads being so much better than HN's that it's hard to even imagine what HN could do differently to compete, and the median HN thread being better than the median Reddit thread. Another interesting thing is that the comparison would probably fall apart completely if not for the heavily-moderated subreddits that produce the best comments. If the Reddit comment cohorts included only the lightly moderated subreddits, HN would probably win on all metrics other than volume and diversity of topics.
- toxican 10y ago
  While I still think HN probably has the better median, the quality of what you're exposed to on reddit is mostly up to you. Ditch the defaults and Reddit's median skyrockets. Ditch some of the more popular non-defaults, it skyrockets some more. Start building a list of well-moderated subreddits with a strong sense of community, and it jumps some more. Not that you're doing this with your comment, but it has always struck me as odd to treat reddit like it's a single website with a single experience for all users. Yes, there's a base, universal experience, but it's truly up to the user to tailor that experience into what they want. You want memes and fart jokes? There are subs for that. You want to look at breathtaking photos? There are (poorly named) subs for that. You want to discuss why obscure Warcraft character A is behaving so oddly toward Warcraft character B? There's a sub for that. To me, that will always be Reddit's strength. No matter what reputation it gets, no matter how much shit goes on in the defaults, there's always my little specialty subreddits filled with meaningful content to consume.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    So that's the obvious response, and I agree, I think --- the comparison does get trickier if you take just, say, AskHistorians versus HN (there are casual Redditisms condoned even on well-moderated subreddits that are annoying enough to keep the comparison tricky). But if you compare the basket of subreddits relevant to HN --- programming, crypto, etc --- right now, I feel like HN is winning handily. Reddit only starts crushing HN when you broaden out into topics that aren't really in HN's bailiwick.
    - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
      I find /r/crypto much better than HN for crypto discussions; you have more than one crypto person there ( as opposed to essentially just you).
      - cpach 10y ago
        AFAIK HN has more than one qualified crypto persons.
AlexCoventry 10y ago
What's an example of a pure economics discussion?
- VodkaHaze 10y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/58tf3h/the_gold_discussion_sticky_come_ask_questions_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/58tf3h/the_go...
ranit 10y ago
> Basically all the subreddits except /r/academiceconomics, /r/badeconomics, /r/econpapers are awful. You probably mean "Basically all the subreddits related to economics except ..."
B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
> they have a really hard time reigning in Reigning monarchs have it hard these days. Not that reining stubborn mules is much better. (Pet peeve, but really paying forward a good correction someone gifted me a few weeks ago. Otherwise quit, really ;)
yxhuvud 10y ago
Regarding /r/economics, if you find it bad now you should have seen it before. I for one doesn't miss the Austrian bullshit that used to be very common there.
kuschku 10y ago
> /r/badeconomics The subreddit arguing that it’s reasonable to give companies power over democratically legitimated governments? No thanks. This is a non-negotiable requirement, no non-democratic entity should have power over the highest democratic entity. That’s the fundamental issue that makes traditional ISDS problematic, and why ICS and the new ISDS alternative in CETA were created in the first place. But /r/badeconomics ignores that entire political problematic.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- VodkaHaze 10y ago
  This: > The subreddit arguing that it’s reasonable to give companies power over democratically legitimated governments Is a massive strawman if you're referring to ISDS (which is what it seems). If you want a trade agreement, the terms need enforcement to be unilateral. But political actors in each respective countries will be incentivized not to respect that by internal pressures. So there needs to be a way to settle those disputes, or else you might as well not have any trade agreement. You can dispute the merits of the current court system; I won't, I'm not an expert in that. But saying that this means "companies have power over democratic countries" is absurd. Go look at supreme court cases in any country. How many are "[person] vs [state]" or "entity vs country"? Democratically elected governments can act in ways just as abhorrent as any other entity; that's why the president doesn't have control over, say, what is constitutional or get to control monetary policy.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    > Go look at supreme court cases The supreme courts are democratically determined and justified. For ISDS courts, half of the judges are appointed by the company that is suing. For ICS courts, all the judges are appointed by the nations taking part. That’s why ICS is acceptable, but ISDS is not. > Democratically elected governments can act in ways just as abhorrent as any other entity Correct, but democratically elected governments are put under checks and balances to prevent them from doing so, foreign companies are not.

jomamaxx 10y ago

"Yet HN comments are vastly inferior to Reddit's when regarding anything to do with economics." I find that HN is pretty weak on economics. But it's a tech blog, so ... And I'm not so sure that 'business ideas' are about economics. Usually, they are simply about doing things using newly available technology, in ways that are obvious in hindsight. I don't think that AirBnB conceptually is rocket science - it's the great experience they provide for everyone. It's really well put together. AirBnB done by a lesser team of people would be something you never heard of.

unixhero 10y ago
I beg to differ! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12556160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12556160
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  I agree there are some smart Econ things here, but when there's a tech article that wavers into Econ elements, I find it all to be lacking, generally. My point: HN folks are not thinking about market power, value chains, supply chains, forms of financing, currency markets - they're thinking about tech. At the risk of getting 100 down-votes - this is best exemplified by Bitcoin. It's a very powerful, cool technology - but almost nobody seems to grasp what it means from a financial perspective, i.e. as a currency, as a store of value etc. etc.. HN readers see it in 'techno-social' terms, i.e. 'cool tech' and 'free from big banks' 'decentralization' etc..
nickpsecurity 10y ago
"I don't think that AirBnB conceptually is rocket science " People have been doing what they're doing on individual or household level on ad hoc basis for decades. The problem persisted all the way up to AirBnB's time. There was no efficient, integrated, widely-available solution to the problem. They provided that. They exploded in growth followed by other founders looking for similar problems in unrelated markets like business trips. Several markets forming as a result. Basic concept is simple and was always there, though. Just needed someone to solve it in an economical way. :)