6 ms·

You don't get it. At ~1000$/yr, it's almost free, independently of your background, and admission is based on good grades at high school. We do get factory work

by tajen 10y ago

You don't get it. At ~1000$/yr, it's almost free, independently of your background, and admission is based on good grades at high school. We do get factory worker's children in the main admission, proof that it's possible. And in addition to that, there are more seats offered to people with low income and average grades at school. Concerning extra-school teaching sessions, nobody takes any, so money won't be a discrimination factor. Concerning housing, if your income is low, the on-campus housing is free, the subscription fee is reduced and they get pocket money. What could we do more? Society can only ensure: - Poor people => treated with humanity, - People who work, independently of their background => be rewarded. > You betcha my rich fellow students, if they ever did drugs, would get the good stuff, not glue and gasoline. For those who decided to smoke gasoline, who decided be a high-school shoplifter for fun, or decided to mug other students, then a hospital is the most that Republic can give them, not higher education. Life's what you make it, and society can't offset your own will.

mercer 10y ago
> Life's what you make it, and society can't offset your own will. That goes against pretty much everything I've seen (and read) of human behavior. Willpower and choice and good decisions are not somehow magically impervious to upbringing and context. In fact, I'd say as 'herd animals' we're more defined by the latter than by the former. If you are right, and every individual can somehow decide in the same way regardless of context ('willpower'), the logical conclusions are rather uncomfortable. We'd have to find a way to explain why large homogenous groups of people (grouped by race, gender, or whatnot) all make the same bad decision. If we believe they have the same ability to choose as anyone else, the only alternative explanation I can think of involve things like racism (they have a low IQ) or sexism (they just aren't meant to be in charge), and so on.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  Anyone in decent health and with moderate intelligence can achieve most things (s)he wants in life. People love finding excuses, but in the end, there's literally an opportunity to make money around every corner. Often it's just a matter of being willing to act on that opportunity. I don't really come from a privileged family and I haven't done too bad for myself at a (relatively) young age. I know plenty of others that have as well. Half of the problem of poverty is the mindset; some people have been let down so many times that they just don't care anymore. And yet, it takes a change of mindset to get out of poverty. To quote Napoleon Hill: "Whatever Your Mind Can Conceive And Believe, It Can Achieve".
  - ionised 10y ago
    Is this satire?
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
>> We do get factory worker's children in the main admission, proof that it's possible. I don't doubt that it is possible. What I'm saying is that it is not common, nor easy. Overwhelmingly education favours the kids form the more privileged backgrounds, who can afford not only a good education, but also all the expenses of actually studying for a good education (for instance, not having to work part-time to support their studies) and who are better placed to take advantage of a good education once they graduate at whatever level (e.g. because they come from a good family and people will take care of them). Also, France is a bit special in that higher education is cheap or even free. This is not the case in other industrialised countries, notably the USA and the UK. In the UK in particular, studying for a higher education qualification often means having to repay a student loan debt for a very long time (like in my case. >> Life's what you make it, and society can't offset your own will. In principle, perhaps. In practice income affects every aspect of your life. It affects the choices that are available to you, and it affects the outcomes of those choices. For instance, if you go to a good school where good kids don't do drugs you'll be much less likely to do drugs and harm your prospects than if you go to a school in a poor neighbourhood where that thing is far more common everywhere you look. Same goes for (violent) crime and so on. Also, it's the case that when you're poor you can't afford to fuck up even a little bit (not to mention, a whole lot). When you're rich it's much easier to get off lightly, or even get rewarded for screwing up. I have personal examples of that also, but others have discussed it. I'm looking for a source, but I think Noam Chomsky has talked about this a bit.
devilsavocado 10y ago
I don't mean this as criticism, only observation. Maybe you haven't been expressing yourself accurately, but based on what you've written in this thread, it appears you have very, very little empathy. You are trying to give logical explanations of how other people are living their lives wrong. It seems like you think it would be easy to be in their shoes. You've listed some benefits given to them and asked what more could you possibly do. The fact that you think $1000/yr is almost free is just so wrong for many families. I am glad you didn't have to grow up in a situation where $1000 wan't an incredible amount of money. Everything you've written still contains an Us Vs. Them vibe. Please try to be aware of this. It can really improve you're life and relationships with others.

by tajen 10y ago

mercer 10y ago

> Life's what you make it, and society can't offset your own will. That goes against pretty much everything I've seen (and read) of human behavior. Willpower and choice and good decisions are not somehow magically impervious to upbringing and context. In fact, I'd say as 'herd animals' we're more defined by the latter than by the former. If you are right, and every individual can somehow decide in the same way regardless of context ('willpower'), the logical conclusions are rather uncomfortable. We'd have to find a way to explain why large homogenous groups of people (grouped by race, gender, or whatnot) all make the same bad decision. If we believe they have the same ability to choose as anyone else, the only alternative explanation I can think of involve things like racism (they have a low IQ) or sexism (they just aren't meant to be in charge), and so on.

charlesdm 10y ago
Anyone in decent health and with moderate intelligence can achieve most things (s)he wants in life. People love finding excuses, but in the end, there's literally an opportunity to make money around every corner. Often it's just a matter of being willing to act on that opportunity. I don't really come from a privileged family and I haven't done too bad for myself at a (relatively) young age. I know plenty of others that have as well. Half of the problem of poverty is the mindset; some people have been let down so many times that they just don't care anymore. And yet, it takes a change of mindset to get out of poverty. To quote Napoleon Hill: "Whatever Your Mind Can Conceive And Believe, It Can Achieve".
- ionised 10y ago
  Is this satire?

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

>> We do get factory worker's children in the main admission, proof that it's possible. I don't doubt that it is possible. What I'm saying is that it is not common, nor easy. Overwhelmingly education favours the kids form the more privileged backgrounds, who can afford not only a good education, but also all the expenses of actually studying for a good education (for instance, not having to work part-time to support their studies) and who are better placed to take advantage of a good education once they graduate at whatever level (e.g. because they come from a good family and people will take care of them). Also, France is a bit special in that higher education is cheap or even free. This is not the case in other industrialised countries, notably the USA and the UK. In the UK in particular, studying for a higher education qualification often means having to repay a student loan debt for a very long time (like in my case. >> Life's what you make it, and society can't offset your own will. In principle, perhaps. In practice income affects every aspect of your life. It affects the choices that are available to you, and it affects the outcomes of those choices. For instance, if you go to a good school where good kids don't do drugs you'll be much less likely to do drugs and harm your prospects than if you go to a school in a poor neighbourhood where that thing is far more common everywhere you look. Same goes for (violent) crime and so on. Also, it's the case that when you're poor you can't afford to fuck up even a little bit (not to mention, a whole lot). When you're rich it's much easier to get off lightly, or even get rewarded for screwing up. I have personal examples of that also, but others have discussed it. I'm looking for a source, but I think Noam Chomsky has talked about this a bit.

devilsavocado 10y ago

I don't mean this as criticism, only observation. Maybe you haven't been expressing yourself accurately, but based on what you've written in this thread, it appears you have very, very little empathy. You are trying to give logical explanations of how other people are living their lives wrong. It seems like you think it would be easy to be in their shoes. You've listed some benefits given to them and asked what more could you possibly do. The fact that you think $1000/yr is almost free is just so wrong for many families. I am glad you didn't have to grow up in a situation where $1000 wan't an incredible amount of money. Everything you've written still contains an Us Vs. Them vibe. Please try to be aware of this. It can really improve you're life and relationships with others.