4 ms·

I think you're conflating terms here. The left wing narrative is closer to saying that growing up poor in a given country is likely to generate heavy stressors

I think you're conflating terms here. The left wing narrative is closer to saying that growing up poor in a given country is likely to generate heavy stressors. And I think this is correct, because growing up poor in a country implies that your family is very low status, which is all sorts of bad from all sorts of sides. The people immigrating to your country are probably not very low status in their country, as they had enough mobility to immigrate, OR growing up low-status in their country had different effects. I don't know enough about Hispanics to say much, but I think family structure and philosophy may be factors. There's also a difference between having no money and having a potato yard and some goats and having no money. Poor Americans often literally have nothing - no money, no food, no parents, no education, no philosophy, etc. In other places, the amount of money you have doesn't correlate so obviously, so when you immigrate, a lot of stuff sticks around, even if it's invisible in the simplistic model of money=success, especially given that immigration itself often gives you an arbitrary pay cut that may take a while to compensate. You can move to the US, and lose your certification to be a doctor because your degree doesn't count in the US, but that doesn't make everything leading up to you becoming a doctor magically evaporate.

grzm 10y ago
> The people immigrating to your country are probably not very low status in their country, as they had enough mobility to immigrate, OR growing up low-status in their country had different effects. Another possibility that comes to mind is that there is some difference between those who migrate and those who remain in the same class. Just another point. I'm not taking or implying any position on any of these.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
Your idea that poor Americans "literally have nothing" is simply incorrect. Poor Americans have obesity-inducing quantities of food, good quality housing [1] and high quality free education (teachers actually show up!!!). You could be right about "no parents, no philosophy" - I don't have data on this. Is it the really the left wing position, that family structure (traditional family vs single mother) and philosophy (work hard, go to church vs feel envy of the neighbors) are the secrets to success? Having a bad work ethic and feeling envy towards those with more than you will likely cause bad behavior, and that bad behavior causes bad outcomes? But a person with a good philosophy (e.g. your doctor who lost certification) will escape poverty that they are thrust into by chance? I'd love to know what left wing sources you are reading. To me these claims sound like something George Bush or Mitt Romney would say, and then get crucified by the media for saying. [1] This document provides information on virtually any specific aspect of housing you want to know, sliced by income level. E.g. # rooms/person, sagging roof, plumbing issues, washer/dryer/AC/kitchen, etc. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf
- Applejinx 10y ago
  It's more accurate to say obesity-inducing qualities of food, since decades of work has gone into optimizing that. It's kinda like if you can make all food function like a very salty glazed donut, you get obesity (especially when it's large quantities of very CHEAP very salty glazed donuts: and bear in mind we also drink our very salty glazed donuts)
briandear 10y ago
Just a quick point, Hispanic immigrants, specifically illegals are from very low statuses in Mexico typically, while middle class Mexicans aren't going to cross a border to do garden work or wash dishes. My statement is anecdotal of course: my wife is from a upper middle class Mexican family from Guadalajara so I am familiar with that circle and attitudes. Typically non-white Mexicans from low-educated villages are the most likely to attempt to go to the US.

grzm 10y ago

> The people immigrating to your country are probably not very low status in their country, as they had enough mobility to immigrate, OR growing up low-status in their country had different effects. Another possibility that comes to mind is that there is some difference between those who migrate and those who remain in the same class. Just another point. I'm not taking or implying any position on any of these.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

Your idea that poor Americans "literally have nothing" is simply incorrect. Poor Americans have obesity-inducing quantities of food, good quality housing [1] and high quality free education (teachers actually show up!!!). You could be right about "no parents, no philosophy" - I don't have data on this. Is it the really the left wing position, that family structure (traditional family vs single mother) and philosophy (work hard, go to church vs feel envy of the neighbors) are the secrets to success? Having a bad work ethic and feeling envy towards those with more than you will likely cause bad behavior, and that bad behavior causes bad outcomes? But a person with a good philosophy (e.g. your doctor who lost certification) will escape poverty that they are thrust into by chance? I'd love to know what left wing sources you are reading. To me these claims sound like something George Bush or Mitt Romney would say, and then get crucified by the media for saying. [1] This document provides information on virtually any specific aspect of housing you want to know, sliced by income level. E.g. # rooms/person, sagging roof, plumbing issues, washer/dryer/AC/kitchen, etc. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf

Applejinx 10y ago
It's more accurate to say obesity-inducing qualities of food, since decades of work has gone into optimizing that. It's kinda like if you can make all food function like a very salty glazed donut, you get obesity (especially when it's large quantities of very CHEAP very salty glazed donuts: and bear in mind we also drink our very salty glazed donuts)

briandear 10y ago

Just a quick point, Hispanic immigrants, specifically illegals are from very low statuses in Mexico typically, while middle class Mexicans aren't going to cross a border to do garden work or wash dishes. My statement is anecdotal of course: my wife is from a upper middle class Mexican family from Guadalajara so I am familiar with that circle and attitudes. Typically non-white Mexicans from low-educated villages are the most likely to attempt to go to the US.