4 ms·

Because of historical accident, a lot of us come from families that distrust unions. I grew up on stories about how unions are greedy for money, which they use

by Decade 10y ago

Because of historical accident, a lot of us come from families that distrust unions. I grew up on stories about how unions are greedy for money, which they use to fund liberal social causes, and also create wasteful regulations, and ultimately destroy industries. The Schlock Mercenary comic, week of June 18, 2001, is an example of our attitude to unions. [0] And by pushing for labor-saving technology and measurable outcomes, that makes us villains to the unions. Capital trying to cut labor out of the economy. It’s sad that unions discount intellectual contribution so much, but that’s often the way it is. [0]http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-06-18 http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-06-18

Kepler-306e 10y ago
Do you have any more resources for this that's more than just a comic? I hear similar things as well but am never sure if it's just propaganda by those who are negatively effected by a union's intended purpose.
- Decade 10y ago
  I don’t keep my sources around, and actually a number of the stories that my parents used to tell, I’ve come to believe are distortions or fabrications. The tricky part is figuring out where are the inaccuracies. You cannot trust the popular media’s historical accounts. They mangle the truth of everything else they report (try listening to reports on anything sciency), often deliberately (journalistic integrity, telling things the way they are, has always been a convenient fiction, even before deconstructionism, but it used to be not hidden).[0] Why should you trust their truth on union history? But a part of union animosity is a matter of interpretation. Unions sometimes resort to coercion to get their members. In the case of California, this is no secret: Get a job in a public school, and you pay union dues, even if you do not join the union. They wrote that into the contract, on the basis that your pay depends on the union’s negotiation, so the union gets its share.[1] Some of the stories are harder to corroborate, from the age before ubiquitous cell phone recordings. Some of the more blatant incidents actually did make it into the historical archive.[2] Some of the more disturbing stories didn’t, such as the story of Cesar Chávez and his union enforcers raping the families of farm workers who refused to join his union. Did that happen? I don’t know for sure. Unions promoting social causes that roughly half of Americans do not want, this is also no secret. The national teachers unions are the most blatant about this.[3] Unions forcing wasteful regulations, this is also no secret. Excessive mandatory staff on public transit.[4][5] Rejection of technological upgrades.[6] Using coercion to force use of overpriced labor.[7] And the big automakers and the entire cities of Vallejo, Stockton, and Detroit going bankrupt, a part of that was pension plans won by unions.[8][9][10] The operation was a success, but the patient died. [0]https://history.state.gov/milestones/1866-1898/yellow-journalism https://history.state.gov/milestones/1866-1898/yellow-journa... [1]http://www.npr.org/2016/01/11/462607980/scotuspublicunions http://www.npr.org/2016/01/11/462607980/scotuspublicunions [2]http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/strikebreakers-called-scabs/ http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/strikebreake... [3]https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=L1300 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=L1300 [4]https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-08-27/labor-rules-snarl-u-s-commuter-trains https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-08-27/labor-rul... [5]http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-where-all-the-trains-are/415152/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-do... [6]https://www.flexport.com/blog/port-automation-oakland-rotterdam/ https://www.flexport.com/blog/port-automation-oakland-rotter... [7]http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-labor-enviro-housing-20160524-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-labor-enviro-hous... [8]http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/10/pf/vallejo-pensions/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/10/pf/vallejo-pensions/ [9]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy-cause-idUSBRE8621DL20120703 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy-cause-... [10]http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2015/12/09/detroit-city-finances-one-year-bankruptcy/77063402/ http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/201...

by Decade 10y ago

Kepler-306e 10y ago

Do you have any more resources for this that's more than just a comic? I hear similar things as well but am never sure if it's just propaganda by those who are negatively effected by a union's intended purpose.

Decade 10y ago
I don’t keep my sources around, and actually a number of the stories that my parents used to tell, I’ve come to believe are distortions or fabrications. The tricky part is figuring out where are the inaccuracies. You cannot trust the popular media’s historical accounts. They mangle the truth of everything else they report (try listening to reports on anything sciency), often deliberately (journalistic integrity, telling things the way they are, has always been a convenient fiction, even before deconstructionism, but it used to be not hidden).[0] Why should you trust their truth on union history? But a part of union animosity is a matter of interpretation. Unions sometimes resort to coercion to get their members. In the case of California, this is no secret: Get a job in a public school, and you pay union dues, even if you do not join the union. They wrote that into the contract, on the basis that your pay depends on the union’s negotiation, so the union gets its share.[1] Some of the stories are harder to corroborate, from the age before ubiquitous cell phone recordings. Some of the more blatant incidents actually did make it into the historical archive.[2] Some of the more disturbing stories didn’t, such as the story of Cesar Chávez and his union enforcers raping the families of farm workers who refused to join his union. Did that happen? I don’t know for sure. Unions promoting social causes that roughly half of Americans do not want, this is also no secret. The national teachers unions are the most blatant about this.[3] Unions forcing wasteful regulations, this is also no secret. Excessive mandatory staff on public transit.[4][5] Rejection of technological upgrades.[6] Using coercion to force use of overpriced labor.[7] And the big automakers and the entire cities of Vallejo, Stockton, and Detroit going bankrupt, a part of that was pension plans won by unions.[8][9][10] The operation was a success, but the patient died. [0]https://history.state.gov/milestones/1866-1898/yellow-journalism https://history.state.gov/milestones/1866-1898/yellow-journa... [1]http://www.npr.org/2016/01/11/462607980/scotuspublicunions http://www.npr.org/2016/01/11/462607980/scotuspublicunions [2]http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/strikebreakers-called-scabs/ http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/strikebreake... [3]https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=L1300 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=L1300 [4]https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-08-27/labor-rules-snarl-u-s-commuter-trains https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-08-27/labor-rul... [5]http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-where-all-the-trains-are/415152/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-do... [6]https://www.flexport.com/blog/port-automation-oakland-rotterdam/ https://www.flexport.com/blog/port-automation-oakland-rotter... [7]http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-labor-enviro-housing-20160524-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-labor-enviro-hous... [8]http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/10/pf/vallejo-pensions/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/10/pf/vallejo-pensions/ [9]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy-cause-idUSBRE8621DL20120703 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy-cause-... [10]http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2015/12/09/detroit-city-finances-one-year-bankruptcy/77063402/ http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/201...