4 ms·

The whole concept of tipping is broken and needs to be done away with. The restaurant in the story should be charging the customers more than $11, so that it ca

The whole concept of tipping is broken and needs to be done away with. The restaurant in the story should be charging the customers more than $11, so that it can pay its staff properly.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
I like tipping. When I have great service, I tip 25%+. When it's terrible I have two times tipped zero. Employers must pay minimum wage. If a tipped employee isn't being made up their wages up to the minimum I will (and have) happily supported their contacting the appropriate authorities. European service, in contrast, is terrible. I've similarly found myself avoiding no-tip restaurants in New York - their service is noticeably worse. And why wouldn't it be? If you are a good server, you pull a multiple of the minimum wage. Only your inferiors would prefer a guaranteed lower tier. Hence, self selection.
- dagw 10y ago
  European service, in contrast, is terrible. Very much disagree (with obviously lots of caveats and exceptions). European service is very reserved, minimal and spends most of the time being completely invisible, except those few moments when I actually need it. They rarely volunteer information, but are extremely knowledgeable when asked. US service is loud, annoying and in my face. They prattle on endlessly about this and that, show up constantly to try to make small talk, and never seem to be able to just leave the customer alone. Service staff in the US also feel more, if not inexperienced, then at least new to this particular job and I always get the feeling they've all just worked at the place for at most a couple of weeks. They've got scripts they've memorised, but they seem far less likely to have any deeper knowledge of what they're serving. What I will agree with is that the worst service I've had in Europe is worse than the worst service I've had in the US. Working for tips forces everyone to get to a minimum level.
ac29 10y ago
Not sure why you were downvoted, but some states allow paying wait staff less than minimum wage. What most needs to change is not allowing sub-minimum wage jobs subsidized by tips. For people who live in California, FYI, wait staff is required to be paid minimum wage, which can not have tips counted against it.
- vinay427 10y ago
  No, "some states" do not allow for paying wait staff less than minimum wage after tips. The federal minimum wage in theory enforces this. It's rather misleading to point out that they might be making less than minimum wage without tips, especially when the average hourly wage after tips is well above the average minimum wage at $11.82. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...
danieltillett 10y ago
Yep. If the person was really empathic they would go out the back and tip the busboy and dishwasher. Tipping needs to die.
arjie 10y ago
I have a pet theory that restaurants are implicitly subsidised by everyone. Here's the prospective chain: * Restaurant pays servers minimum wage * Servers make more than that via tips * Servers do not report tips (maybe past some threshold, let's say min wage) on taxes since they receive them in cash * Restaurant pays payroll taxes on minimum wage, servers pay income tax on minimum wage * The remainder that the server keeps and the lowered payroll tax comprise the subsidy. If the restaurant had to keep server pay constant, it has to compensate for the tips and the income tax on the tips, and it has to pay increased payroll tax on the rest. Not doing this is highly advantageous to every party here except the taxpayer. And the taxpayer doesn't care about the few microcents on the dollar. I still tip because that's just how things work here, of course.
- drakonandor 10y ago
  - some knucklehead waiter applies for government assistance he is entitled for on paper, but doesn't actually need (e.g. food stamps, full pell grant, welfare? whatever) - every news station in the country runs an article about how your business relies on government handouts

The whole concept of tipping is broken and needs to be done away with. The restaurant in the story should be charging the customers more than $11, so that it can pay its staff properly.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

I like tipping. When I have great service, I tip 25%+. When it's terrible I have two times tipped zero. Employers must pay minimum wage. If a tipped employee isn't being made up their wages up to the minimum I will (and have) happily supported their contacting the appropriate authorities. European service, in contrast, is terrible. I've similarly found myself avoiding no-tip restaurants in New York - their service is noticeably worse. And why wouldn't it be? If you are a good server, you pull a multiple of the minimum wage. Only your inferiors would prefer a guaranteed lower tier. Hence, self selection.

dagw 10y ago
European service, in contrast, is terrible. Very much disagree (with obviously lots of caveats and exceptions). European service is very reserved, minimal and spends most of the time being completely invisible, except those few moments when I actually need it. They rarely volunteer information, but are extremely knowledgeable when asked. US service is loud, annoying and in my face. They prattle on endlessly about this and that, show up constantly to try to make small talk, and never seem to be able to just leave the customer alone. Service staff in the US also feel more, if not inexperienced, then at least new to this particular job and I always get the feeling they've all just worked at the place for at most a couple of weeks. They've got scripts they've memorised, but they seem far less likely to have any deeper knowledge of what they're serving. What I will agree with is that the worst service I've had in Europe is worse than the worst service I've had in the US. Working for tips forces everyone to get to a minimum level.

ac29 10y ago

Not sure why you were downvoted, but some states allow paying wait staff less than minimum wage. What most needs to change is not allowing sub-minimum wage jobs subsidized by tips. For people who live in California, FYI, wait staff is required to be paid minimum wage, which can not have tips counted against it.

vinay427 10y ago
No, "some states" do not allow for paying wait staff less than minimum wage after tips. The federal minimum wage in theory enforces this. It's rather misleading to point out that they might be making less than minimum wage without tips, especially when the average hourly wage after tips is well above the average minimum wage at $11.82. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...

danieltillett 10y ago

Yep. If the person was really empathic they would go out the back and tip the busboy and dishwasher. Tipping needs to die.

arjie 10y ago

I have a pet theory that restaurants are implicitly subsidised by everyone. Here's the prospective chain: * Restaurant pays servers minimum wage * Servers make more than that via tips * Servers do not report tips (maybe past some threshold, let's say min wage) on taxes since they receive them in cash * Restaurant pays payroll taxes on minimum wage, servers pay income tax on minimum wage * The remainder that the server keeps and the lowered payroll tax comprise the subsidy. If the restaurant had to keep server pay constant, it has to compensate for the tips and the income tax on the tips, and it has to pay increased payroll tax on the rest. Not doing this is highly advantageous to every party here except the taxpayer. And the taxpayer doesn't care about the few microcents on the dollar. I still tip because that's just how things work here, of course.

drakonandor 10y ago
- some knucklehead waiter applies for government assistance he is entitled for on paper, but doesn't actually need (e.g. food stamps, full pell grant, welfare? whatever) - every news station in the country runs an article about how your business relies on government handouts