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Now is a strange time to commit to spending billions on light rail. In multiple cities ridership is down even as more money has been spent on rail. Two examples

Now is a strange time to commit to spending billions on light rail. In multiple cities ridership is down even as more money has been spent on rail. Two examples are LA and DC. https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ridership-slump-20160127-story,amp.html?client=safari https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/local/california/... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/metro-fourth-quarter-ridership-plunges-11-percent/2016/09/06/b94a2fa6-744c-11e6-b786-19d0cb1ed06c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/met... Transportation options are becoming more personalized with Uber, Lyft, and autonomous cars around the corner, but rail is and inflexible technology. Without new ideas on how to make light rail more flexible and personal, these investments lock people it to inflexible transportation infrastructure and that is troublesome.

Analemma_ 10y ago
> In multiple cities ridership is down even as more money has been spent on rail. In other cities maybe, but not in Seattle. Ridership on the Link Light Rail has gone way up since the UW extension opened. > Transportation options are becoming more personalized with Uber, Lyft, and autonomous cars around the corner, Uber and Lyft exist in Seattle today, and they clearly aren't enough to solve the problem, since commute times are still increasing (2x since 2010). Autonomous cars can't fix it either - the only way autonomous cars can actually decrease congestion is if ALL the cars on the road are networked and there can be a computer somewhere doing birds-eye planning on the whole fleet. That scenario is many decades away if it happens at all. Also, as another commenter pointed out, Sound Transit is specifically investigating how to incorporate autonomous vehicles into their planning as part of this proposal.
- seattle_native 10y ago
  >> the only way autonomous cars can actually decrease congestion is if ALL the cars on the road are networked and there can be a computer somewhere doing birds-eye planning on the whole fleet. That scenario is many decades away if it happens at all. Did you know the UW has a big transit lab and actually has the equipment the track cars around the city. Same with SPD. That future is coming quikcly!
  - erispoe 10y ago
    Autonomous cars are still nor nearly space efficient enough for dense urban environments. Autonomous cars will be great for suburbs and highways. Cities will still need mass transit.
    - seattle_native 10y ago
      Sure. Though I would hardly qualify Seattle as "dense". We are mostly single family housing
- throwawaymsft 10y ago
  Are you sure the only way autonomous cars can help is with 100% market penetration? How about * Better carpooling options * Automatically taking side streets (based on traffic) to reduce load * Less swerving/lane changing/rubbernecking which causes backups * Detecting and responding to traffic waves (a few cars can make a difference) * Reduced urban parking needs (fewer cars endlessly circling, a huge fraction of traffic) It goes on.
notyourwork 10y ago
The difference here is that the recent few years of explosion from Amazon and other tech companies has created a massive problem for distance commuters. This type of transit will be used without a doubt.
pcwalton 10y ago
> Now is a strange time to commit to spending billions on light rail. In multiple cities ridership is down even as more money has been spent on rail. Two examples are LA and DC. That LA Times article was true for January, but the situation has started to reverse this year as more rail has been built. Scroll down to the bottom: https://www.metro.net/news/ridership-statistics/ https://www.metro.net/news/ridership-statistics/ Here's another more recent article: http://www.lamag.com/driver/expo-gold-line-extensions-turning-rail-ridership-around/ http://www.lamag.com/driver/expo-gold-line-extensions-turnin...
melling 10y ago
NYC subway usage is high. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/nyregion/surge-in-ridership-pushes-new-york-subway-to-limit.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/nyregion/surge-in-ridershi... You need a good system before people are going to use it. The US population is going up by another 100 million people by 2050. Think more cars is the answer?

Analemma_ 10y ago

> In multiple cities ridership is down even as more money has been spent on rail. In other cities maybe, but not in Seattle. Ridership on the Link Light Rail has gone way up since the UW extension opened. > Transportation options are becoming more personalized with Uber, Lyft, and autonomous cars around the corner, Uber and Lyft exist in Seattle today, and they clearly aren't enough to solve the problem, since commute times are still increasing (2x since 2010). Autonomous cars can't fix it either - the only way autonomous cars can actually decrease congestion is if ALL the cars on the road are networked and there can be a computer somewhere doing birds-eye planning on the whole fleet. That scenario is many decades away if it happens at all. Also, as another commenter pointed out, Sound Transit is specifically investigating how to incorporate autonomous vehicles into their planning as part of this proposal.

seattle_native 10y ago
>> the only way autonomous cars can actually decrease congestion is if ALL the cars on the road are networked and there can be a computer somewhere doing birds-eye planning on the whole fleet. That scenario is many decades away if it happens at all. Did you know the UW has a big transit lab and actually has the equipment the track cars around the city. Same with SPD. That future is coming quikcly!
- erispoe 10y ago
  Autonomous cars are still nor nearly space efficient enough for dense urban environments. Autonomous cars will be great for suburbs and highways. Cities will still need mass transit.
  - seattle_native 10y ago
    Sure. Though I would hardly qualify Seattle as "dense". We are mostly single family housing
throwawaymsft 10y ago
Are you sure the only way autonomous cars can help is with 100% market penetration? How about * Better carpooling options * Automatically taking side streets (based on traffic) to reduce load * Less swerving/lane changing/rubbernecking which causes backups * Detecting and responding to traffic waves (a few cars can make a difference) * Reduced urban parking needs (fewer cars endlessly circling, a huge fraction of traffic) It goes on.

notyourwork 10y ago

The difference here is that the recent few years of explosion from Amazon and other tech companies has created a massive problem for distance commuters. This type of transit will be used without a doubt.

pcwalton 10y ago

> Now is a strange time to commit to spending billions on light rail. In multiple cities ridership is down even as more money has been spent on rail. Two examples are LA and DC. That LA Times article was true for January, but the situation has started to reverse this year as more rail has been built. Scroll down to the bottom: https://www.metro.net/news/ridership-statistics/ https://www.metro.net/news/ridership-statistics/ Here's another more recent article: http://www.lamag.com/driver/expo-gold-line-extensions-turning-rail-ridership-around/ http://www.lamag.com/driver/expo-gold-line-extensions-turnin...

melling 10y ago

NYC subway usage is high. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/nyregion/surge-in-ridership-pushes-new-york-subway-to-limit.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/nyregion/surge-in-ridershi... You need a good system before people are going to use it. The US population is going up by another 100 million people by 2050. Think more cars is the answer?