4 ms·

Are we living in a Simulation? – The Saint

4 points by mwilcox 10y ago

cairo_x 10y ago
Also: There is a lot of suffering in this world. High levels of social conscientiousness (mutual aid) is a positive selecting factor in evolution of highly intelligent species (Darwin/Kropotkin). Therefore, no intelligence smart enough to build a universal simulation would do so. IMNSHO.
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  Human perception is highly relative - our capacity to feel suffering is necessary for joy to be meaningful. Kind of like there would be no far without near, and no up without down. What if this isn't just a simulation, but a game, and we're avatars? A game needs challenge and conflict, nobody wants to play a game that is basically "press start to win."
  - cairo_x 10y ago
    Why are people born into such disparagingly disparate circumstances? Pretty shitty game. Why are some born healthy, and others sick. This mode of thinking is... illogical. It also encourages an unhealthy, almost fundamentalist disconnect from all thinking/feeling things. The disturbing, fascist aspect of Zen or Shinto (nothing is real, there are no consequences because there is nothing), or the 50 virgins afterlife of the funda'islamism, is all very very dark disconnected thinking. Makes me despair somewhat. Like he says in the article, another form of religion.
    - CuriouslyC 10y ago
      Controlling the circumstances people are born into would require controlling the circumstances up until their birth, which would mean mean the "game" was fully deterministic. If the game was deterministic, it wouldn't be like playing a game, it would be like watching a movie you already know by heart - i.e. not so engaging. The fact that you are free to act, and the outcome is uncertain - that is what makes for a compelling experience. Additionally, you assume poor people in third world countries are automatically miserable. In actuality, they're only miserable when they're hungry, sick, mistreated, or made to feel want by having affluence rubbed in their faces - kind of like us. It is true that their odds of being hungry or sick are higher, and in some unstable countries there is a lot of mistreatment going on. That being said, I've been around a fair number of third-world villagers, and my experience is that in general they are just as happy as your typical first-world american.
      - cairo_x 10y ago
        Have you had a chronic illness? No advanced civilization would find it ethically acceptable to put people through the suffering many go through on a day to day basis. My own life has been plagued by chronic, treatment resistant depression. I can't do things other people do, because my stress response does not allow for recovery. If I was born in a third world country, hell, even some place like Eastern Europe where it is almost impossible to find work at the moment, I'd have had to have killed myself long ago. Simply unable to survive. Even worse some place like Syria, where for the last 4 and a half years have been having the equivalent of a Paris Terrorist attack every single day. People are forced into shitty boats, into countries that don't want them, to escape bombs made in the countries that don't want them. Suicide is the one of the leading causes of death worldwide. In countries privileged enough to have data collection and less cultural taboos on the issue, the largest groups that suicide are also the most likely to be the most disadvantaged. In some Aboriginal communities, for instance, child suicide is a common occurrence. Do you know what it is like to be a parent and to lose your child in any kind of way? My god! What kind of a monster would create a world like this? OK... step back.. Let's say we discovered a scientist was deliberately rearing children genetically engineered to have some kind of un-treatable illness. IT WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE. Now multiply by millions every year. How do you not understand that that is unacceptable and unethical? You think the holocaust would be a interesting game? Maybe pop into a body just as it's being gassed? Or maybe to observe? Doctor Mengele type shit right there, son. edit: I am not complaining, or bitter about my own situation, however, I WOULD NOT WISH IT ON MY OWN WORSE ENEMY. I do not believe in the death penalty, nor seeking vengeance by torture. Certainly wouldn't want to be the axe-weilding bag of high-functioning idiot dildos who thought up the idea to create this universe.
        CuriouslyC 10y ago
        I have overcome ASD, crippling social anxiety to the point that I never left the house, extreme morbid obesity, homelessness, drug abuse and depression so bad not only was I contemplating suicide multiple times a day, I spent a significant amount of time researching and planning it. My game setting was extreme hard-mode. I never gave up, and in the end I overcame it all. Now I've got a body that could make an underwear model jealous, I have an amazing career, I regularly win speech contests, I've got several inventions in the patent process, I'm about 150 pages deep in a book I'm writing, the list goes on. For every person who endures great suffering, there is someone else out there experiencing incredible joy. You need to be able to experience one in order to have the other - our emotional systems are relative. Furthermore, the freedom that makes it a game rather than a show to be passively observed unfortunately implies the freedom to be nasty to other people. Nasty stuff like natural disasters, killer viruses and painful genetic conditions are unfortunate, but there is so much out there that is wonderful. I don't want to be preachy, but I've been to the darkest part of the abyss, so maybe I could offer you a little bit of advice. You need to stop paying so much attention to the negative messages floating around in the world and open your eyes to the beauty that is abundant all around you. Additionally, you are stronger than you think, you can take control of your life, you don't have to be a victim.

4 points by mwilcox 10y ago

Also: There is a lot of suffering in this world. High levels of social conscientiousness (mutual aid) is a positive selecting factor in evolution of highly intelligent species (Darwin/Kropotkin). Therefore, no intelligence smart enough to build a universal simulation would do so. IMNSHO.

CuriouslyC 10y ago
Human perception is highly relative - our capacity to feel suffering is necessary for joy to be meaningful. Kind of like there would be no far without near, and no up without down. What if this isn't just a simulation, but a game, and we're avatars? A game needs challenge and conflict, nobody wants to play a game that is basically "press start to win."
- cairo_x 10y ago
  Why are people born into such disparagingly disparate circumstances? Pretty shitty game. Why are some born healthy, and others sick. This mode of thinking is... illogical. It also encourages an unhealthy, almost fundamentalist disconnect from all thinking/feeling things. The disturbing, fascist aspect of Zen or Shinto (nothing is real, there are no consequences because there is nothing), or the 50 virgins afterlife of the funda'islamism, is all very very dark disconnected thinking. Makes me despair somewhat. Like he says in the article, another form of religion.
  - CuriouslyC 10y ago
    Controlling the circumstances people are born into would require controlling the circumstances up until their birth, which would mean mean the "game" was fully deterministic. If the game was deterministic, it wouldn't be like playing a game, it would be like watching a movie you already know by heart - i.e. not so engaging. The fact that you are free to act, and the outcome is uncertain - that is what makes for a compelling experience. Additionally, you assume poor people in third world countries are automatically miserable. In actuality, they're only miserable when they're hungry, sick, mistreated, or made to feel want by having affluence rubbed in their faces - kind of like us. It is true that their odds of being hungry or sick are higher, and in some unstable countries there is a lot of mistreatment going on. That being said, I've been around a fair number of third-world villagers, and my experience is that in general they are just as happy as your typical first-world american.
    - cairo_x 10y ago
      Have you had a chronic illness? No advanced civilization would find it ethically acceptable to put people through the suffering many go through on a day to day basis. My own life has been plagued by chronic, treatment resistant depression. I can't do things other people do, because my stress response does not allow for recovery. If I was born in a third world country, hell, even some place like Eastern Europe where it is almost impossible to find work at the moment, I'd have had to have killed myself long ago. Simply unable to survive. Even worse some place like Syria, where for the last 4 and a half years have been having the equivalent of a Paris Terrorist attack every single day. People are forced into shitty boats, into countries that don't want them, to escape bombs made in the countries that don't want them. Suicide is the one of the leading causes of death worldwide. In countries privileged enough to have data collection and less cultural taboos on the issue, the largest groups that suicide are also the most likely to be the most disadvantaged. In some Aboriginal communities, for instance, child suicide is a common occurrence. Do you know what it is like to be a parent and to lose your child in any kind of way? My god! What kind of a monster would create a world like this? OK... step back.. Let's say we discovered a scientist was deliberately rearing children genetically engineered to have some kind of un-treatable illness. IT WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE. Now multiply by millions every year. How do you not understand that that is unacceptable and unethical? You think the holocaust would be a interesting game? Maybe pop into a body just as it's being gassed? Or maybe to observe? Doctor Mengele type shit right there, son. edit: I am not complaining, or bitter about my own situation, however, I WOULD NOT WISH IT ON MY OWN WORSE ENEMY. I do not believe in the death penalty, nor seeking vengeance by torture. Certainly wouldn't want to be the axe-weilding bag of high-functioning idiot dildos who thought up the idea to create this universe.
      - CuriouslyC 10y ago
        I have overcome ASD, crippling social anxiety to the point that I never left the house, extreme morbid obesity, homelessness, drug abuse and depression so bad not only was I contemplating suicide multiple times a day, I spent a significant amount of time researching and planning it. My game setting was extreme hard-mode. I never gave up, and in the end I overcame it all. Now I've got a body that could make an underwear model jealous, I have an amazing career, I regularly win speech contests, I've got several inventions in the patent process, I'm about 150 pages deep in a book I'm writing, the list goes on. For every person who endures great suffering, there is someone else out there experiencing incredible joy. You need to be able to experience one in order to have the other - our emotional systems are relative. Furthermore, the freedom that makes it a game rather than a show to be passively observed unfortunately implies the freedom to be nasty to other people. Nasty stuff like natural disasters, killer viruses and painful genetic conditions are unfortunate, but there is so much out there that is wonderful. I don't want to be preachy, but I've been to the darkest part of the abyss, so maybe I could offer you a little bit of advice. You need to stop paying so much attention to the negative messages floating around in the world and open your eyes to the beauty that is abundant all around you. Additionally, you are stronger than you think, you can take control of your life, you don't have to be a victim.