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I would think that the fact that they paid him should be de facto evidence that he signed a contract for the money, and that the burden of proof would be on the

by x1798DE 10y ago

I would think that the fact that they paid him should be de facto evidence that he signed a contract for the money, and that the burden of proof would be on them to show that the contract was invalid for some reason.

tedunangst 10y ago
Based on the amount, they can probably determine what kind of bonus it was (special forces, radio operator, etc.) and then determine if he was eligible for any of those bonuses.
- startling 10y ago
  ...except the whole problem is that they overpaid bonuses.
  - tedunangst 10y ago
    Yeah. They gave the radio operator bonus to the cook (as an example). It's easy to see from the amount it was the radio bonus, and it's easy to see from the service record somebody was a cook, and that was bonus was overpaid. And now they want their money back (which is pretty shitty, given the circumstances). But the amounts of the correct bonus and the given bonus are not unknowable. These aren't bespoke contracts, every one unique.
    - mariuolo 10y ago
      Unless they can show bad faith on the part of the beneficiary, shouldn't whoever authorised the payment be on the hook for it?
      - tedunangst 10y ago
        I'm guessing here, but I imagine there's a clause like "recipient agrees to attend X training, and return bonus otherwise." Whether the recipient remembers seeing that clause is another matter.
      - lithos 10y ago
        The military is very good at doing whatever they want to. There's a better than good chance they just started docking 100% of his pay without telling them anywhere but their pay stub, then put them in a situation where it takes man-days at a minimum to get answers. It's something that happened to a way too many people that I knew. first one was old navy so ended in a hilarious fist fight(after being without pay for two months from an admin error), second one was new navy so it was a very painful process of working with personnel while they were on 4 hour workdays in shipyard, then there are way too many people that fell into classic bonus blackmail were the navy just beats you down in all directions(socially, finciancilly, and time) after getting disqualified from your job(mast, medical, mental, and family issues all included) (basically if you get bonus of some sort it hangs over your head for a good 4-6 years, and if you do pay it back you're paying it back in docked pay, withheld taxes, and maybe even your bank account. And in the amount that was paid to you before taxes).

by x1798DE 10y ago

tedunangst 10y ago

Based on the amount, they can probably determine what kind of bonus it was (special forces, radio operator, etc.) and then determine if he was eligible for any of those bonuses.

startling 10y ago
...except the whole problem is that they overpaid bonuses.
- tedunangst 10y ago
  Yeah. They gave the radio operator bonus to the cook (as an example). It's easy to see from the amount it was the radio bonus, and it's easy to see from the service record somebody was a cook, and that was bonus was overpaid. And now they want their money back (which is pretty shitty, given the circumstances). But the amounts of the correct bonus and the given bonus are not unknowable. These aren't bespoke contracts, every one unique.
  - mariuolo 10y ago
    Unless they can show bad faith on the part of the beneficiary, shouldn't whoever authorised the payment be on the hook for it?
    - tedunangst 10y ago
      I'm guessing here, but I imagine there's a clause like "recipient agrees to attend X training, and return bonus otherwise." Whether the recipient remembers seeing that clause is another matter.
    - lithos 10y ago
      The military is very good at doing whatever they want to. There's a better than good chance they just started docking 100% of his pay without telling them anywhere but their pay stub, then put them in a situation where it takes man-days at a minimum to get answers. It's something that happened to a way too many people that I knew. first one was old navy so ended in a hilarious fist fight(after being without pay for two months from an admin error), second one was new navy so it was a very painful process of working with personnel while they were on 4 hour workdays in shipyard, then there are way too many people that fell into classic bonus blackmail were the navy just beats you down in all directions(socially, finciancilly, and time) after getting disqualified from your job(mast, medical, mental, and family issues all included) (basically if you get bonus of some sort it hangs over your head for a good 4-6 years, and if you do pay it back you're paying it back in docked pay, withheld taxes, and maybe even your bank account. And in the amount that was paid to you before taxes).