5 ms·

Hmm with an incredible enough camera you theoretically ought to be able to see and then memorize idiosyncracies per card with any deck and then take it to Vegas

Hmm with an incredible enough camera you theoretically ought to be able to see and then memorize idiosyncracies per card with any deck and then take it to Vegas at any table. I'd say its possible now, although too slow and expensive and obviously seeing the same card as the same card from every side is the hardest part. The camera and light would probably be a fair amount larger, too.

manarth 10y ago
With an unmarked deck, I don't believe the technology currently exists. I would accept that at a given magnification, every card is unique (including when viewed from the side), and can be uniquely identified. But without a marked deck, it would need one (probably more than one) run through the deck, to see the value of a card and associate it with an image of the side of the card. Bear in mind you only get to record cards that are shown, so it could potentially take many games to record the full deck, and that's assuming the deck stays consistent. But even with multiple run-throughs of the deck, I don't think we have the technology to produce that high resolution a camera in a small enough form-factor. Even putting aside expense, the trick here is pre-marked decks, with markings visible only to IR. Without that, we'd need serious advancements in lenses and sensors before we could have a tool that was discreet enough to pull out at a game.
- Tuna-Fish 10y ago
  > Bear in mind you only get to record cards that are shown, so it could potentially take many games to record the full deck, and that's assuming the deck stays consistent. Depending on what game you are playing, you don't need to mark anywhere near the full deck. In hold'em, you can get a definite edge if you manage to mark two aces. The primary problem is optics. All optical devices are limited by the quantization of light. No matter how good your camera technology, if there are not enough photons bouncing off a target, you cannot see it accurately. Modern cameras (and even your eyes!) are much closer to the hard limits placed by physics than most people think. In the case of a side of a card in not very well lit indoors, I don't think you can discern enough detail without either a large lens or a long exposure, both of which could be hard to pull off inside a casino. Even painted on markings, they need a bright IR light to pull this off at a close distance. Similarly, your camera would need a bright light source.
robryk 10y ago
I wonder if cards are transparent enough in some wavelength, in which the markings on the face are still readable.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  I feel like they've probably thought of that.
  - ytpete 10y ago
    Either that, or any device that can generate the right wavelength with the precision to see through exactly 1 card thickness is lab equipment the size of a refrigerator... in which case I assume they don't worry about it.
dsmithatx 10y ago
It relies on an IR led. Casinos have cameras which this IR will show up like a blinding flashlight. People use IR Led's to blind security cameras. I've been to home games that had cameras everywhere that would detect this. They were more for the armed invasions though.

manarth 10y ago

With an unmarked deck, I don't believe the technology currently exists. I would accept that at a given magnification, every card is unique (including when viewed from the side), and can be uniquely identified. But without a marked deck, it would need one (probably more than one) run through the deck, to see the value of a card and associate it with an image of the side of the card. Bear in mind you only get to record cards that are shown, so it could potentially take many games to record the full deck, and that's assuming the deck stays consistent. But even with multiple run-throughs of the deck, I don't think we have the technology to produce that high resolution a camera in a small enough form-factor. Even putting aside expense, the trick here is pre-marked decks, with markings visible only to IR. Without that, we'd need serious advancements in lenses and sensors before we could have a tool that was discreet enough to pull out at a game.

Tuna-Fish 10y ago
> Bear in mind you only get to record cards that are shown, so it could potentially take many games to record the full deck, and that's assuming the deck stays consistent. Depending on what game you are playing, you don't need to mark anywhere near the full deck. In hold'em, you can get a definite edge if you manage to mark two aces. The primary problem is optics. All optical devices are limited by the quantization of light. No matter how good your camera technology, if there are not enough photons bouncing off a target, you cannot see it accurately. Modern cameras (and even your eyes!) are much closer to the hard limits placed by physics than most people think. In the case of a side of a card in not very well lit indoors, I don't think you can discern enough detail without either a large lens or a long exposure, both of which could be hard to pull off inside a casino. Even painted on markings, they need a bright IR light to pull this off at a close distance. Similarly, your camera would need a bright light source.

robryk 10y ago

I wonder if cards are transparent enough in some wavelength, in which the markings on the face are still readable.

emodendroket 10y ago
I feel like they've probably thought of that.
- ytpete 10y ago
  Either that, or any device that can generate the right wavelength with the precision to see through exactly 1 card thickness is lab equipment the size of a refrigerator... in which case I assume they don't worry about it.

dsmithatx 10y ago

It relies on an IR led. Casinos have cameras which this IR will show up like a blinding flashlight. People use IR Led's to blind security cameras. I've been to home games that had cameras everywhere that would detect this. They were more for the armed invasions though.