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Most men have not ever considered becoming a cosmetologist. How is that not a problem? And why is it somehow a problem that women don't consider becoming a prog
by yason 17y ago
Most men have not ever considered becoming a cosmetologist. How is that not a problem? And why is it somehow a problem that women don't consider becoming a programmer?
Both sexes could make those choices and that's far more important than whether they actually do it.
- dgabriel 17y agoIt's not a problem in cosmetology, but it's a huge problem in nursing and elementary education. Qualified people are being discouraged from fields that would benefit greatly from their participation, based solely on their gender.
- bobbyi 17y agoI can't ever remember being "discouraged" from nursing or teaching. When does this happen? Did you have an experience in school where you were literally told that you shouldn't become a nurse or teacher?
- sfk 17y agohttp://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=333168 http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=333168
- akeefer 17y agoThe discrimination against male nurses isn't overt, it's much more subtle: male nurses are the subject of jokes and people act as if there's something inherently effeminate and un-masculine about the profession. There's a general societal attitude that "nursing is for women" that certainly discourages men from entering the profession.
- moultano 17y agoThe profession's title literally means "to suckle at the breast." If it were commonly called something like "doctor's aid" I'd bet it wouldn't be as pronounced a problem.
- hugh3 17y agoIf that were true then you could check it by looking at the male nurse prevalence among non-English speaking countries. In French, Italian and Spanish a nurse is some variation on "infermier" coming from the same root as the word for "sickness", and they don't have higher rates of male nurses. In German it's the truly awesome word "Krankenschwester" meaning something like "sickness sister". Obviously this is gender-specific and has nothing to do with my point, but I just learned it and felt the need to share. I tried a few other languages in google translate but didn't know them well enough to figure out the etymologies. If anyone knows of non-gender-loaded "nurse" words in other languages it would be interesting to hear them.
- philwelch 17y agoI've gathered that the continuing witchhunt against pedophiles keeps a lot of men out of teaching, actually.
- TeHCrAzY 17y agoThis is why I am a programmer today. I was strongly pushed by guidance counselors + my parents to not pursue a teaching career purely because of the risk involved. My Mother works as a teachers aide, and often mentions the extreme levels that male teachers will go to to avoid any implication or suspicion. The mere rumor of anything would be both career ending and life threatening.
- dgabriel 17y agoThat's a terrible shame, but I hope you find your current career fulfilling. I hope we can all move past gender biases someday.
- bct 17y agoPeople who say that women are discouraged from computer science don't mean that women are literally told they shouldn't become programmers, either.
- whyenot 17y agoMost men have not ever considered becoming a cosmetologist. I suspect that has something to do with many men avoiding jobs that they think might call their sexual orientation into question. Many men have gone into cosmetology and done quite well. The reasons so few women go into CS has little to do with worries about their perceived orientation. You are comparing apples to oranges.
- hugh3 17y agoYou don't think it has more to do with the fact that most men have little interest in womens' makeup? I find it hard to believe there are many men out there who'd really like to be cosmetologists but are afraid of being seen as gay. But if you're out there, feel free to reply!
- dgabriel 17y agoThey're probably on cosmetology message boards, not HN.
- hugh3 17y agoI like the idea that the cosmetology boards are filled with male programmers who really wanted to be cosmetologists, and HN is filled with female cosmetologits who really wanted to be programmers.
- whyenot 17y agoCosmetology is a pretty broad term it doesn't just cover "women's makeup." Cosmetologists also do hairstyling, mani/pedicure, and electrolysis for example. You can have flexible hours, instead of working in a cube staring at a screen,you spend your days talking to people and making them look good, you don't need to go to school very long to get your license, and while the wages aren't all that great, if you do a good job and build up a loyal clientele, you can do alright for yourself. Do you honestly believe there aren't some men, even straight men, who wouldn't be interested in a career like that?
- run4yourlives 17y ago