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> Maybe these people exist. Maybe there are teams where optimizing technical decisions for these people results in a net benefit. I've seen this reflected stro

> Maybe these people exist. Maybe there are teams where optimizing technical decisions for these people results in a net benefit. I've seen this reflected strongly in large companies on the east coast. Design staff is expected to know HTML/CSS, but aren't exepected to have more than a cursory understanding of javascript. Design will often start with HTMl prototypes, then do a handoff to engineering who will using a JS framework to wire it into the real app. Lately, though companies are swithcing to React, because JSX seems similar enough to HTML that people presume that design staff will be able to understand it.

jdbernard 10y ago
I'm in a startup using Angular for some of our stuff and we get the same benefit. Our primary design guy is able to create pages before devs wire them up, and make a lot of the UI changes directly himself without our help.
- Roboprog 10y ago
  I hear you. JSX sounds like the wrong thing to me, as well. (but I'm also working on a long Angular 1 project at my job, so I "may" be biased) I REALLY like that Angular 1 allows you to simply make a mockup, then add the "programming stuff" behind the scenes. WITHOUT an enormous build chain (I have enough of that on the server side already, and the server is not Node for historical reasons - I'm not sure about node yet, and even if I wanted it, that just won't fly in my group) I'm not done yet, but I'm doing a presentation on this in December at one of the local user groups: https://github.com/roboprog/ang-prog-enh https://github.com/roboprog/ang-prog-enh
pluma 10y ago
I've had the misfortune to work with a Java developer who insisted he didn't know JavaScript and therefore wouldn't ever touch JavaScript code even if it would have saved everyone a ton of time. Yet at the same time the Java code would often generate HTML or even JS code directly. There are companies with stupid silos like this, but for the reasons I laid out I doubt they actually benefit from the "toy-language templates" approach -- even in the aforementioned company the non-developer designers would implement the entire layout as a mockup in HTML and then toss it over to a frontend dev who would cut it up and add the actual template logic (because although the template language was "easy" non-programmers couldn't be "trusted" to get the logic right).

jdbernard 10y ago

I'm in a startup using Angular for some of our stuff and we get the same benefit. Our primary design guy is able to create pages before devs wire them up, and make a lot of the UI changes directly himself without our help.

Roboprog 10y ago
I hear you. JSX sounds like the wrong thing to me, as well. (but I'm also working on a long Angular 1 project at my job, so I "may" be biased) I REALLY like that Angular 1 allows you to simply make a mockup, then add the "programming stuff" behind the scenes. WITHOUT an enormous build chain (I have enough of that on the server side already, and the server is not Node for historical reasons - I'm not sure about node yet, and even if I wanted it, that just won't fly in my group) I'm not done yet, but I'm doing a presentation on this in December at one of the local user groups: https://github.com/roboprog/ang-prog-enh https://github.com/roboprog/ang-prog-enh

pluma 10y ago

I've had the misfortune to work with a Java developer who insisted he didn't know JavaScript and therefore wouldn't ever touch JavaScript code even if it would have saved everyone a ton of time. Yet at the same time the Java code would often generate HTML or even JS code directly. There are companies with stupid silos like this, but for the reasons I laid out I doubt they actually benefit from the "toy-language templates" approach -- even in the aforementioned company the non-developer designers would implement the entire layout as a mockup in HTML and then toss it over to a frontend dev who would cut it up and add the actual template logic (because although the template language was "easy" non-programmers couldn't be "trusted" to get the logic right).