3 ms·
LLCs are useful entities that fit the needs of many startups. The main limitations: (1) can't do the equivalent of ISOs and so the options you can grant will a
by grellas 17y ago
LLCs are useful entities that fit the needs of many startups.
The main limitations: (1) can't do the equivalent of ISOs and so the options you can grant will always be "non-qualified" (generating ordinary income on the "spread" at the time of exercise); (2) need to do custom drafting, with attendant expense, to mirror standard corporate tools in the LLC context (restricted unites in lieu of restricted stock, preferred units in lieu of preferred stock, etc.); (3) passive investors will wind up paying employment taxes on net income of the venture even though they are not employees (see the lively HN discussion comparing the LLC to the S Corp on this point, here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1063516 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1063516); and (4) for tax reasons related to their LPs, VCs can't invest in them.
Among the advantages: (1) more informality in management (normally by consensus among members, reflecting the LLC's strong partnership roots); (2) can get tax pass-through without needing to abide by S Corp limitations (with S, can have only one class of stock, can't have foreign shareholders, can't generally have entity shareholders - all of which you can have with an LLC and still get the tax pass-through); (3) can do specialized allocation of losses, which is an important factor for certain investors; (4) can grant profits-only interest to key founders who would otherwise take big tax hit in taking significant equity in an established, high-value startup.
The biggest practical advantage of an LLC is also its biggest practical limitation, and that is that it is like the siren song tempting founders to do quickie, online setups for their startups "just to get started." This is fine for some purposes but can lead to problems if founders use their startup kits to fill out standard templates without taking proper precautions to protect their IP (by failing to capture it for the company), to protect their equity structure (by making sure that founders have to earn their equity over time), etc. In my experience, most of these situations work out without problems but it is wise to get an initial legal consultation in such cases to make sure that, if you take the attendant risks, you do so with open eyes.
- gte910h 17y agoTalking with multiple accountants before last setting up my LLC, all said don't think of doing anything but setting it up as a S-Corp with the IRS unless we're going to have huge, yearly losses. It doesn't seem like it's that many steps there to turn an S-Corp filing LLC into a C-Corp. Additionally, I do not see why the LLC (Esp an S-Corp or C-Corp filing type) cannot just sell itself to a newly founded C-Corp.
- gcv 17y agoI think it can, but the sale counts as a liquidity event, which means the LLC's members must pay taxes on the income they derive from the sale. That's why you have to get bulletproof tax advice. In addition, there may be issues with securities laws, so you also need an expensive lawyer experienced in dealing with this problem.
- gte910h 17y agoSecurities laws are mostly about the sale of public companies and the purchases of public companies.
- watchandwait 17y agoSecurities law governs all corporate fundraising including angel investing in privately held companies.
- pjhyett 17y agoLLC conversion to C-Corp can be done (we did it), but it was certainly a headache. Letting our lawyer and CPA take care of everything but our signatures was well worth the money.
- gte910h 17y agoWhich state? Did you like the job they did? Want to share their names?
- pjhyett 17y agoCalifornia. Alan Lewis is our lawyer (alan@alanlewislaw.com) and Alan Watters is our CPA (awatters@krohngodby.com). No complaints working with these guys and they're not terribly expensive (relatively speaking).
- imp 17y agoThe article linked to another one that mentions how in some cases single-member LLCs don't provide protection from personal liability. Is that another disadvantage of LLCs for single founders? Or is the risk of the corporate veil being pierced very small?