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JSX using JS for logic is both a boon and a curse. It is just as easy to shoot yourself in the foot and write some ugly imperative construction as writing an el

by Bahamut 10y ago

JSX using JS for logic is both a boon and a curse. It is just as easy to shoot yourself in the foot and write some ugly imperative construction as writing an elegant template. I wonder if we will ever have a satisfactory solution to the template problem of conditional rendering. All I've seen so far solved one problem only to bring another. To some degree, this is really a dogmatic problem, which is why it'd be nice if we could solve this and move on with more important things.

jwdunne 10y ago
In fairness that's the main point of contention with PHP templates, leading us to 4 big templating languages including PHP itself. It's the same old balance problem: more flexibility and less constraints opens up potentially dangerous misuse. We see it with languages too I.e C memory management vs garbage collection. We also see it socially too. There are particular problems with both 0% regulation and 100% regulation, with the ideal that nobody can agree on lying somewhere in between. In fact, some situations call for more or less, compounding the confusion. Perhaps the solution is a template system that can fit current needs, in that a programmer can choose to remove a restriction but the removal of the restriction gives the seconds required to think if removing a restriction is necessary. That then means we can collaborate as an industry. We may find that there exists one or a handful of "ideal general restrictions". We may also find that actually for certain types of problem would do well with a handful of specific restrictions that work well there. I just don't think there is a one size template solution and our attempts at a fixed ideal haven't seemed to work. After all, if we had the true ideal, we wouldn't keep making new ones.
- elcct 10y ago
  It seems like a huge waste of time to create a new language so that people will not do "stupid" things in their templates. The case of PHP is especially amusing. How about using common sense? I mean if a programmer intends to do "dangerous misuses" in the templates, maybe he shouldn't work on it in the first place. Having a person not being able to tell whether something is dangerous or not, working on the project and then creating a template language to forgive the lack of knowledge is just asking for trouble in the long run.

by Bahamut 10y ago

jwdunne 10y ago

In fairness that's the main point of contention with PHP templates, leading us to 4 big templating languages including PHP itself. It's the same old balance problem: more flexibility and less constraints opens up potentially dangerous misuse. We see it with languages too I.e C memory management vs garbage collection. We also see it socially too. There are particular problems with both 0% regulation and 100% regulation, with the ideal that nobody can agree on lying somewhere in between. In fact, some situations call for more or less, compounding the confusion. Perhaps the solution is a template system that can fit current needs, in that a programmer can choose to remove a restriction but the removal of the restriction gives the seconds required to think if removing a restriction is necessary. That then means we can collaborate as an industry. We may find that there exists one or a handful of "ideal general restrictions". We may also find that actually for certain types of problem would do well with a handful of specific restrictions that work well there. I just don't think there is a one size template solution and our attempts at a fixed ideal haven't seemed to work. After all, if we had the true ideal, we wouldn't keep making new ones.

elcct 10y ago
It seems like a huge waste of time to create a new language so that people will not do "stupid" things in their templates. The case of PHP is especially amusing. How about using common sense? I mean if a programmer intends to do "dangerous misuses" in the templates, maybe he shouldn't work on it in the first place. Having a person not being able to tell whether something is dangerous or not, working on the project and then creating a template language to forgive the lack of knowledge is just asking for trouble in the long run.