5 ms·
To be honest, I'm still hung up on the lack of viable radiation shielding, a way to protect people from the harmful effects of microgravity, and micrometeorite
by M_Grey 10y ago
To be honest, I'm still hung up on the lack of viable radiation shielding, a way to protect people from the harmful effects of microgravity, and micrometeorite impacts. I don't doubt that given time and experience, payloads can be sent to Mars, I just doubt that functional, healthy humans can be under this kind of scheme.
- ceejayoz 10y agoThe amount of radiation received on a Earth-Mars trip gives a cancer risk roughly that of being a smoker. Not awesome, but certainly survivable. Plus, a hundred people's worth of water stored in the walls should make a pretty nice shield (not to mention the propellant tanks, which they plan to aim at the Sun to absorb the brunt of radiation). People already stay on the ISS two to four times as long as Musk's proposed travel time to Mars, and they'll be landing somewhere with a third of Earth's gravity. They might all need to hang out for a day or two to get their Mars legs, but I don't see an issue here either. Micrometeorite impacts haven't done the ISS any appreciable damage in its nearly 20 year service history. Again, doesn't seem like a problem.
- kitsunesoba 10y agoAnd as missions become routine, costs drop, and dangers become well-known all of these things will only improve. The biggest obstacle to making space travel more human-friendly is that practically no humans are traveling through space. Change that part of the equation and the rest is downhill.
- M_Grey 10y agoIt's easy to talk about sacrificing people for the sake of progress, but it's still barbaric.
- erikpukinskis 10y agoIt's not really the trip that worries me, it's living on Mars. You need to live under five meters of soil in order to get the same radiation protection as Earth's atmosphere provides. You're basically mole people. Which means the difference between living on Mars and living in windowless apartment complex on Earth is that you can do a couple space suit jaunts through the Martian deserts each week. People can definitely survive living almost entirely indoors. I expect VR will be big on Mars. But I think the lack of natural light will really limit the comfort level. If someone can invent an invisible electromagnetic radiation shield that would change the game.
- Hondor 10y agoIs EM radiation that can't be blocked by sheets of metal really an important problem? It looks like we can use magnetic fields to block charged particles and apparently that's good enough for space travel - but perhaps not for a person's whole life. http://www.sr2s.eu/project-news/19-eu-space-project-will-allow-astronauts-to-undergo-deep-space-travel http://www.sr2s.eu/project-news/19-eu-space-project-will-all...
- M_Grey 10y agoSheets of metal have a lot of issues, unless you bring hugely THICK sheets of dense metals. All you do with thinner shielding is turn your alpha/beta risk into a re-radiated gamma risk. Plus, dense shielding is heavy... and therefore expensive in terms of its Delta-v.
- elihu 10y agoArtificial light isn't the best, but it can be made to resemble daylight; I don't see that as a show-stopper. If we can find some nice lava tubes that can be sealed and pressurized, it might make for some rather spacious dwellings. But yes, I expect the first Martians to effectively be mole people. I imagine living on Mars would be a lot like living in a place like Whittier Alaska [1] (a town where everyone lives in the same building). Not for everyone, but some people might like it. [1] http://www.npr.org/2015/01/18/378162264/welcome-to-whittier-alaska-a-community-under-one-roof http://www.npr.org/2015/01/18/378162264/welcome-to-whittier-...
- M_Grey 10y agoSounds like a recipe for madness, suicide, and homicide to me, especially given the lack of escape.
- IndianAstronaut 10y agoGoing outside routinely is dangerous on Mars. It takes a penny sized hole in your suit and you're dead.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- marze 10y agoPeople have lived in zero g for a year at a time, without significant health impact. The SpaceX proposed transit of three months is a quarter of that. These year long stays were on the space station, which has similar or less shielding. The Earth's magnetic field helps, but really, by the time you get to your Mars habitat with unlimited shielding mass available, your total dose is not that high.
- maxerickson 10y agoThere's all sorts of concerns after a year in space. http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/1/11138102/scott-kelly-year-in-space-health-effects-return-to-earth http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/1/11138102/scott-kelly-year-i... I guess they aren't well characterized yet.
- marze 10y agoRisks are relative. Early travelers will face very significant risks. Radiation and zero g are indeed risks, but a minor compared to the other risks.
- maxerickson 10y agoRisks are relative. is a very different calculation than People have lived in zero g for a year at a time, without significant health impact.
- marze 10y agoDifferent, but both true. If you have a 5% of dying in transit or at Mars due to equipment failure, as well as a 2% increased chance of getting cancer at some time in the future, the first obviously is the one to worry about.
- M_Grey 10y agoIt's going to be dangerous enough on Mars, without adding those factors in. Worse, it's going to be difficult if the person who dies is in a critical position. You would have some redundancy in personnel, but that's costly in terms of Delta-v too, for them, and for everything it takes to keep them alive.
- fizixer 10y agosee my response to marze: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12766618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12766618
- hammock 10y agoWould make a great TV series, a la Terra Nova. You might have a society where the average lifespan is cut in half, predominant diseases are space-related and accidents are a daily or weekly part of life. It wouldn't be like living on Earth, but it would be something.
- chucksmash 10y agoYou might enjoy The Expanse book series! There are several world-building tangents that delve into exactly this area. I'm thinking (no spoilers) specifically of how Ceres, having been spun up to provide artificial gravity, becomes a destination for expecting mothers trying to avoid complications associated with low-G.
- Pinckney 10y agoSurely Ceres would just fling itself apart?
- snrplfth 10y agoIt sure would. Not that you could spin up something so large.
- SolarNet 10y agoI also like how the only sci-fi conceit the book asks for (besides the antagonist aliens obviously) are the engines which are right on the edge of the theoretical maximum.
- drakonandor 10y agoThat TV show is great.