26 ms·

> The energy spent for TCP/IP stack usage is negligible at best. Not true, especially en masse. Even less true for wirelessly connected devices.

by msane 10y ago

laurentdc 10y ago
Hm, in my experience the difference between idle and 100% CPU usage on a modern ARM processor (e.g. Allwinner H3) is around 1 Watt. That's more or less what an LCD monitor in standby draws. I wouldn't call that significant (as in, impacting the global energy consumption significantly) even if thousands of devices started the attack at the same time.
- drvdevd 10y ago
  Would you call that detectable? Eespecially en masse. Perhaps a smart grid could detect these attacks in some way and dynamically adjust power to compromised devices?
  - mjevans 10y ago
    I wouldn't. The signal ratio to noise very likely just isn't there. Remember, people regularly operate toaster ovens, microwaves, hairdryers, etc on a fluxuating basis, and THOSE tend to consume more like 1200+ Watts for a /single/ device.
    - Splines 10y ago
      Here's a real-world case of the above happening (tea kettles): http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/people/teatimebritain.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/people/teatime...
meira 10y ago
You can sum it and have a big number but is electricity that would be wasted anyway.
bdamm 10y ago
Power consumption fluctuations need to be up in the billions of watts before power companies generally care and must do something about it. Wifi routers are limited to 1W output power, so you'd need a lot more than just the hundreds of millions of wifi routers bleating out TCP packets at the top of their lungs to take down the power grid. Also, what the power companies really care about are changes in consumption; once they've adjusted the grid parameters to compensate for an increase in power consumption, they're happy until the consumption drops off. Using wifi or any internet traffic to destabilize the grid is just not going to work because there just isn't enough raw drain available, even if the attackers could get their timing absolutely flawlessly perfect so every wifi model popped on at once.
- AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
  ???

> The energy spent for TCP/IP stack usage is negligible at best. Not true, especially en masse. Even less true for wirelessly connected devices.

by msane 10y ago

> The energy spent for TCP/IP stack usage is negligible at best. Not true, especially en masse. Even less true for wirelessly connected devices.

laurentdc 10y ago

Hm, in my experience the difference between idle and 100% CPU usage on a modern ARM processor (e.g. Allwinner H3) is around 1 Watt. That's more or less what an LCD monitor in standby draws. I wouldn't call that significant (as in, impacting the global energy consumption significantly) even if thousands of devices started the attack at the same time.

drvdevd 10y ago
Would you call that detectable? Eespecially en masse. Perhaps a smart grid could detect these attacks in some way and dynamically adjust power to compromised devices?
- mjevans 10y ago
  I wouldn't. The signal ratio to noise very likely just isn't there. Remember, people regularly operate toaster ovens, microwaves, hairdryers, etc on a fluxuating basis, and THOSE tend to consume more like 1200+ Watts for a /single/ device.
  - Splines 10y ago
    Here's a real-world case of the above happening (tea kettles): http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/people/teatimebritain.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/people/teatime...

meira 10y ago

You can sum it and have a big number but is electricity that would be wasted anyway.

bdamm 10y ago

Power consumption fluctuations need to be up in the billions of watts before power companies generally care and must do something about it. Wifi routers are limited to 1W output power, so you'd need a lot more than just the hundreds of millions of wifi routers bleating out TCP packets at the top of their lungs to take down the power grid. Also, what the power companies really care about are changes in consumption; once they've adjusted the grid parameters to compensate for an increase in power consumption, they're happy until the consumption drops off. Using wifi or any internet traffic to destabilize the grid is just not going to work because there just isn't enough raw drain available, even if the attackers could get their timing absolutely flawlessly perfect so every wifi model popped on at once.

AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
???