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I bought a three family house. I live on the second floor and rent out the first and third floor units on the web. It is sharing my house. When I first bought

I bought a three family house. I live on the second floor and rent out the first and third floor units on the web. It is sharing my house. When I first bought the house I inherited a 12 month lease tenant from the previous owner. When I had that tentant, I didn't feel like this was my house. I couldnt go on the first floor, I had to walk on eggshells around the tenant and her kid. Now this is my house! My house! I own it, and I let in guests that I screen through airbnb and other sites. They come for a few days, pay 300-600, and I make the beds and greet them and its really nice and I have met some cool people. So in my case we are talking about turning a three family house into a basically single family house with some guests. That is a use case I dont think is being represented in this conversation.

lsh123 10y ago
So basically, you are running a small-scale hotel and you live in it. I think you are competing with other hotels and you should follow the same rules as the other hotels do. If you don't like the rules, then you should change them but it should be the same rules for everyone.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- willholloway 10y ago
  I do follow the same rules, I comply with all fire codes, carry proper insurance coverage and pay 15% hotel tax on every booking.
  - mejari 10y ago
    I don't believe those are all the rules that hotels have to abide by
  - jeffwass 10y ago
    Are you legally allowed to run a hotel in/on your property, and is it properly zoned? Adhering to the few rules you listed above doesn't mean you follow ALL the same rules as hotels. (Not implying that in your case you're not zoned correctly or following ALL rules, but certainly many airbnb properties are non-compliant).
cowsandmilk 10y ago
Contrast to condo buildings, which throughout the country adopt similar rules with no pressure from the government; no leases under 6 months or 1 year are an extremely common in condo agreements. These rules have been around for decades. My own buildings were set in 1989 in the original docs. The desire to not have short term rentals as neighbors is something extremely common. Most tenants don't have the ability to effect change the way an owner in a condo building does, so they cannot prevent the unit next door from being AirBnB'ed, so they turn to the government. Whether it should be the law as it is in NYC, probably not, but using the law is more like someone using a hammer to put in a screw, not your characterization of a "hammer looking for a nail." You're pretending like your experience amongst suburban single family houses is at all applicable to multi-family housing in NYC when it isn't. You don't own a 10-unit building in Brooklyn Heights going all short-term rental, which is the more typical target of this law and what AirBnB is trying to defend.
FireBeyond 10y ago
"with some guests". Where "some" is "68 in 21 days".
geebee 10y ago
That's pretty much exactly what a lot of people don't want you to do - remove permanent housing and convert it to short term rentals for tourists. This is a big part of why NY and other municipalities are moving to regulate airbnb.
- willholloway 10y ago
  Well heres the thing, the house I am in is non-conforming multi-family. Its only allowed to be mutli-family because its grandfathered in. Believe me, the town and neighbors would rather it be single-family, because multi-family brings in a lower class of occupant. And heres the other thing. It was originally a single family house that was converted to multi family. So things change, markets change, demand changes. Codifying usage in zoning laws and making it immutable might be a luxury affordable for places like NYC, but its not affordable for places with tons of sellers and little buyers, places where foreclosure rates threaten the value of homes with current mortgages. The occupants of my house go to restaurants, rent kayaks, go to the local attractions. This is a tourist town, and vacation rentals are expanding our reach. People will stay at a vacation rental that wouldnt stay at a hotel. Because they get a kitchen and a room for the kids. They will stay for a week in the summer. Who wants to stay for a week in a hotel room with four kids? Vacation rentals are keeping this town alive, and I don't think this is being represented in this debate. There is near unlimited affordable housing available in this area.
  - cowsandmilk 10y ago
    > Vacation rentals are keeping this town alive, and I don't think this is being represented in this debate. This debate is about a law in NYC. Not your little vacation village where things may be completely different. The Outer Banks aren't going to outlaw short term rentals.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - sonar_un 10y ago
    Thank you! Seriously, if AirBNB were a free market (and it is), what these listings are doing is allowing more people to come into the city and spend their own money on services throughout the city. This is a boon for all businesses in the city. It increases the availability of units and lowers the cost of other hotels throughout the city. What people are afraid of is that they see all these units available on AirBNB and assume they are empty? They are not, they are being rented out pretty regularly. Which means they are being used and filled, with real live human beings. If people didn't like empty units in the city, they should be complaining about the high-end units like One57 and 436park that are removing available units for the city and creating high-rise ghost towns. I don't believe for one second this increases the cost of rental and/or condo units in the city. Since what is really happening is that the units are still full. AirBNB allowed us to see that there was a very real apartment shortage in the city. I lived in NYC, and even I had to move out because of high rents. But those high rents weren't because of AirBNB. It was due to a lack of smaller units being put on the market. As the units consolidated from 1bd to 3 or 4bd apartments, the sizes of the apartments grew, and all new buildings were for multi-million dollar residences. The middle class got squeezed. Now we are blaming AirBNB for the problems. And that is simply not the case.
tptacek 10y ago
It's really hard to see a version of this story that supports your claim that these laws are "hammers in search of nails". In one telling, you --- or, the proverbial you, the 10 less-responsible versions of you that exist for every equally-responsible you --- bringing a massive flow of short-term renters to buildings and neighborhoods zoned and coded for long-term tenants, overriding those regulations based entirely on your personal hunch that people are generally better than the democratic process of your municipality has decided they are. In another telling, you are more or less stating outright that, because after buying a building designed for three families you discovered you don't like letting two other families have long-term leases, you've converted your three-family dwelling into a hotel. Even putting zoning aside, you're like living proof of how Airbnb impacts housing stock. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. I'm saying that you're making a pretty clear case that there is a significant public policy stake in whether or not you should be able to continue doing it it. I'm not even saying that the zoning concern or the housing stock concern should prevail or are dispositive or anything! I happen to find them compelling, but, whatever. I'm just saying, if I was trying to convince people that the state should mind its own business and let a hundred Airbnbs bloom, this is probably not the thing I would brag about in public.
- willholloway 10y ago
  This house was built around the turn of the century as a single family house. At some point someone changed it to three. I'm changing it back. I own it. If for some reason the town tried to stop me from doing short term rentals, I would just convert the house to single family and sell it for twice what I bought it for. Unless one is opposed to property rights and free markets, I don't see how how one has standing to complain.
  - jonknee 10y ago
    > Unless one is opposed to property rights and free markets, I don't see how how one has standing to complain. Owning property doesn't let you alone change its zoning. If I was your free market property right loving neighbor I would be upset that you're running a hotel in a residential area.
  - 10y ago

lsh123 10y ago

So basically, you are running a small-scale hotel and you live in it. I think you are competing with other hotels and you should follow the same rules as the other hotels do. If you don't like the rules, then you should change them but it should be the same rules for everyone.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
willholloway 10y ago
I do follow the same rules, I comply with all fire codes, carry proper insurance coverage and pay 15% hotel tax on every booking.
- mejari 10y ago
  I don't believe those are all the rules that hotels have to abide by
- jeffwass 10y ago
  Are you legally allowed to run a hotel in/on your property, and is it properly zoned? Adhering to the few rules you listed above doesn't mean you follow ALL the same rules as hotels. (Not implying that in your case you're not zoned correctly or following ALL rules, but certainly many airbnb properties are non-compliant).

cowsandmilk 10y ago

Contrast to condo buildings, which throughout the country adopt similar rules with no pressure from the government; no leases under 6 months or 1 year are an extremely common in condo agreements. These rules have been around for decades. My own buildings were set in 1989 in the original docs. The desire to not have short term rentals as neighbors is something extremely common. Most tenants don't have the ability to effect change the way an owner in a condo building does, so they cannot prevent the unit next door from being AirBnB'ed, so they turn to the government. Whether it should be the law as it is in NYC, probably not, but using the law is more like someone using a hammer to put in a screw, not your characterization of a "hammer looking for a nail." You're pretending like your experience amongst suburban single family houses is at all applicable to multi-family housing in NYC when it isn't. You don't own a 10-unit building in Brooklyn Heights going all short-term rental, which is the more typical target of this law and what AirBnB is trying to defend.

FireBeyond 10y ago

"with some guests". Where "some" is "68 in 21 days".

geebee 10y ago

That's pretty much exactly what a lot of people don't want you to do - remove permanent housing and convert it to short term rentals for tourists. This is a big part of why NY and other municipalities are moving to regulate airbnb.

willholloway 10y ago
Well heres the thing, the house I am in is non-conforming multi-family. Its only allowed to be mutli-family because its grandfathered in. Believe me, the town and neighbors would rather it be single-family, because multi-family brings in a lower class of occupant. And heres the other thing. It was originally a single family house that was converted to multi family. So things change, markets change, demand changes. Codifying usage in zoning laws and making it immutable might be a luxury affordable for places like NYC, but its not affordable for places with tons of sellers and little buyers, places where foreclosure rates threaten the value of homes with current mortgages. The occupants of my house go to restaurants, rent kayaks, go to the local attractions. This is a tourist town, and vacation rentals are expanding our reach. People will stay at a vacation rental that wouldnt stay at a hotel. Because they get a kitchen and a room for the kids. They will stay for a week in the summer. Who wants to stay for a week in a hotel room with four kids? Vacation rentals are keeping this town alive, and I don't think this is being represented in this debate. There is near unlimited affordable housing available in this area.
- cowsandmilk 10y ago
  > Vacation rentals are keeping this town alive, and I don't think this is being represented in this debate. This debate is about a law in NYC. Not your little vacation village where things may be completely different. The Outer Banks aren't going to outlaw short term rentals.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- sonar_un 10y ago
  Thank you! Seriously, if AirBNB were a free market (and it is), what these listings are doing is allowing more people to come into the city and spend their own money on services throughout the city. This is a boon for all businesses in the city. It increases the availability of units and lowers the cost of other hotels throughout the city. What people are afraid of is that they see all these units available on AirBNB and assume they are empty? They are not, they are being rented out pretty regularly. Which means they are being used and filled, with real live human beings. If people didn't like empty units in the city, they should be complaining about the high-end units like One57 and 436park that are removing available units for the city and creating high-rise ghost towns. I don't believe for one second this increases the cost of rental and/or condo units in the city. Since what is really happening is that the units are still full. AirBNB allowed us to see that there was a very real apartment shortage in the city. I lived in NYC, and even I had to move out because of high rents. But those high rents weren't because of AirBNB. It was due to a lack of smaller units being put on the market. As the units consolidated from 1bd to 3 or 4bd apartments, the sizes of the apartments grew, and all new buildings were for multi-million dollar residences. The middle class got squeezed. Now we are blaming AirBNB for the problems. And that is simply not the case.

tptacek 10y ago

It's really hard to see a version of this story that supports your claim that these laws are "hammers in search of nails". In one telling, you --- or, the proverbial you, the 10 less-responsible versions of you that exist for every equally-responsible you --- bringing a massive flow of short-term renters to buildings and neighborhoods zoned and coded for long-term tenants, overriding those regulations based entirely on your personal hunch that people are generally better than the democratic process of your municipality has decided they are. In another telling, you are more or less stating outright that, because after buying a building designed for three families you discovered you don't like letting two other families have long-term leases, you've converted your three-family dwelling into a hotel. Even putting zoning aside, you're like living proof of how Airbnb impacts housing stock. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. I'm saying that you're making a pretty clear case that there is a significant public policy stake in whether or not you should be able to continue doing it it. I'm not even saying that the zoning concern or the housing stock concern should prevail or are dispositive or anything! I happen to find them compelling, but, whatever. I'm just saying, if I was trying to convince people that the state should mind its own business and let a hundred Airbnbs bloom, this is probably not the thing I would brag about in public.

willholloway 10y ago
This house was built around the turn of the century as a single family house. At some point someone changed it to three. I'm changing it back. I own it. If for some reason the town tried to stop me from doing short term rentals, I would just convert the house to single family and sell it for twice what I bought it for. Unless one is opposed to property rights and free markets, I don't see how how one has standing to complain.
- jonknee 10y ago
  > Unless one is opposed to property rights and free markets, I don't see how how one has standing to complain. Owning property doesn't let you alone change its zoning. If I was your free market property right loving neighbor I would be upset that you're running a hotel in a residential area.
- 10y ago