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Keaton, you make it incredibly clear that you have no understanding about how education works. It's really sad that you criticize YC and our excellent educator

Keaton, you make it incredibly clear that you have no understanding about how education works. It's really sad that you criticize YC and our excellent educator community. Your neglect and lack of respect for teachers and traditional schooling is appalling and disturbing. The saddest part is that a large number of young techies (you are 19) feel like you. Nevertheless, I want to empathize with you, and suggest that you step away from your computer and spend just any small amount of time within our public education system to see the challenges and complexities of serving our students. It is a complex problem and you are grossly understating and trivializing the importance and purpose of existing institutions. The founders of Uber and Bitcoin and Airbnb got nothing on education. Serve even 10 underserved students and drive them to prolonged success, and then come back and talk. I don't take offense as much as someone running an edtech company, as much as I take for being a part of an outstanding community of people improving education.

50CNT 10y ago
But the mean in education isn't all that great, is it? There's issues that stem from assumptions about education that were correct in the 14th century but have since become a bit dated. You can improve a system built on the wrong premises, but you can't fix it. It's a system that works through sheer force of will, and squanders the efforts of educators and students alike. The ambition of education technology shouldn't be to rehabilitate 10 underserved students, no matter how noble of a goal that is. It should be to make sure they aren't ever underserved. The current system can't do that period. By the time you have fixed the issues that prevent it from doing that, you've ripped out and replaced 90% of it. The way class progression works. Automating lecture components. The testing components. How responsibility over students is handed from teacher to teacher. Assuring best practices are used, both by students and teachers. The curricula and how they feed into each other. Tracking student progress. Negotiation of homework quantity between teachers. Enabling broad collaboration between teachers in matters of teaching materials. Quality assurance. The rage is not against the fact that there is an education system. It's that it could be so much better. It's against the waste of youth. A class of 30 with only half of it engaged wastes 180 childyears over their K-12s. That's 2 long lifetimes, in the years when their minds are the most malleable.
- KeatonDunsford 10y ago
  I've been incredibly inspired by YC and only mean for my criticism to be constructive. But by naming their edtech initiative "Imagine K12", they've already lost. I care as much about solving education as they do. I think the basis of my argument is factually correct. Just look at the data. Why not treat education like any other disruptable industry?
  - 50CNT 10y ago
    Thinking about similar things, wanna chat?
    - KeatonDunsford 10y ago
      Sounds good. Shoot me an email at keaton@bloomv1.org. Other social media info is in my HN profile page.
KeatonDunsford 10y ago
You may be right. But if I'm right, I'll help more kids faster. And that's what I care about. And I think I am right, because I see what I'm talking about every day. With the exception of a few incredible teachers and mentors out there (I myself had several), education today isn't genuinely exciting for most students. Many teachers are truly great people and are valuable to students. But are they a necessity, or a luxury? Either way, in order for educational content to stay current in today's system, teachers need to be taught new information first before they can then teach their students. Physical teacher-to-student teaching is an O(n^k+1) solution that will never be in every city let alone the developing world. If -- and that's a big "if" -- learning could come from a single software-based source of information in a way that was just as good or better than physical teaching today, a world-class education and credit for it could be accessible everywhere. All a student would need is a smartphone, which is relatively nothing compared to the current cost of education. Look at Duolingo as a great example of this for language learning and language-fluency credentialing. And on top of that, is the role of the teacher to in fact teach, or to guide and mentor? Great mentorship is invaluble, but that can also come from anybody great even if they're not in a formal teaching role. Most learning today, whether technology, science or art, happens through books and YouTube videos and students teaching each other anyways. This peer-to-peer model works. And because through this model, young, radiant students are the primary source of content delivery, this model is also addictively social and exciting. All you have to do is remove the system and let kids do their thing. There's a reason products like Reddit are so popular -- it's an Internet ecosystem for youth all over the world. Almost everyone who's been largely successful in any field has been self-taught. This isn't a coincidence. Those who truly love what they do enough to commit themselves to becoming world class by definition transcend the limits imposed by conventional educational standards. The problem, then, is not a teaching problem, but an exposure problem and an excitement problem to help kids find their passions and solve problems with friends in person who they love. Could an edtech platform be as viral as a Snapchat, Twitter, Netflix, Twitch Reddit, Buzzfeed? That's what I'm set to find out. Edit: For context: Harkness table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harkness_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harkness_table Sugata Mitra: Kids can teach themselves https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_... The best prep school in the world Phillips Exeter Academy, where I went, ironically is designed around kids teaching themselves. And parents pay $40,000+ per year for it.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
I quickly skimmed your site. I think the assignment on counting a room full of cash was brilliant. That should instantly get students attention in general and to how they might count their future stash. I'm interested in hearing how well that assignment did in both learning and creative solutions from students.
spacelizard 10y ago
Most educational systems are rooted in child-care, not in actually educating students. And the ones that do have the resources to properly educate students are often so entrenched in politics and status that they become better conduits for indoctrination instead of empowering students to better make decisions themselves. Like any old organization problems, it is going to be incredibly difficult for them to shed that history.

50CNT 10y ago

But the mean in education isn't all that great, is it? There's issues that stem from assumptions about education that were correct in the 14th century but have since become a bit dated. You can improve a system built on the wrong premises, but you can't fix it. It's a system that works through sheer force of will, and squanders the efforts of educators and students alike. The ambition of education technology shouldn't be to rehabilitate 10 underserved students, no matter how noble of a goal that is. It should be to make sure they aren't ever underserved. The current system can't do that period. By the time you have fixed the issues that prevent it from doing that, you've ripped out and replaced 90% of it. The way class progression works. Automating lecture components. The testing components. How responsibility over students is handed from teacher to teacher. Assuring best practices are used, both by students and teachers. The curricula and how they feed into each other. Tracking student progress. Negotiation of homework quantity between teachers. Enabling broad collaboration between teachers in matters of teaching materials. Quality assurance. The rage is not against the fact that there is an education system. It's that it could be so much better. It's against the waste of youth. A class of 30 with only half of it engaged wastes 180 childyears over their K-12s. That's 2 long lifetimes, in the years when their minds are the most malleable.

KeatonDunsford 10y ago
I've been incredibly inspired by YC and only mean for my criticism to be constructive. But by naming their edtech initiative "Imagine K12", they've already lost. I care as much about solving education as they do. I think the basis of my argument is factually correct. Just look at the data. Why not treat education like any other disruptable industry?
- 50CNT 10y ago
  Thinking about similar things, wanna chat?
  - KeatonDunsford 10y ago
    Sounds good. Shoot me an email at keaton@bloomv1.org. Other social media info is in my HN profile page.

KeatonDunsford 10y ago

You may be right. But if I'm right, I'll help more kids faster. And that's what I care about. And I think I am right, because I see what I'm talking about every day. With the exception of a few incredible teachers and mentors out there (I myself had several), education today isn't genuinely exciting for most students. Many teachers are truly great people and are valuable to students. But are they a necessity, or a luxury? Either way, in order for educational content to stay current in today's system, teachers need to be taught new information first before they can then teach their students. Physical teacher-to-student teaching is an O(n^k+1) solution that will never be in every city let alone the developing world. If -- and that's a big "if" -- learning could come from a single software-based source of information in a way that was just as good or better than physical teaching today, a world-class education and credit for it could be accessible everywhere. All a student would need is a smartphone, which is relatively nothing compared to the current cost of education. Look at Duolingo as a great example of this for language learning and language-fluency credentialing. And on top of that, is the role of the teacher to in fact teach, or to guide and mentor? Great mentorship is invaluble, but that can also come from anybody great even if they're not in a formal teaching role. Most learning today, whether technology, science or art, happens through books and YouTube videos and students teaching each other anyways. This peer-to-peer model works. And because through this model, young, radiant students are the primary source of content delivery, this model is also addictively social and exciting. All you have to do is remove the system and let kids do their thing. There's a reason products like Reddit are so popular -- it's an Internet ecosystem for youth all over the world. Almost everyone who's been largely successful in any field has been self-taught. This isn't a coincidence. Those who truly love what they do enough to commit themselves to becoming world class by definition transcend the limits imposed by conventional educational standards. The problem, then, is not a teaching problem, but an exposure problem and an excitement problem to help kids find their passions and solve problems with friends in person who they love. Could an edtech platform be as viral as a Snapchat, Twitter, Netflix, Twitch Reddit, Buzzfeed? That's what I'm set to find out. Edit: For context: Harkness table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harkness_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harkness_table Sugata Mitra: Kids can teach themselves https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_... The best prep school in the world Phillips Exeter Academy, where I went, ironically is designed around kids teaching themselves. And parents pay $40,000+ per year for it.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

I quickly skimmed your site. I think the assignment on counting a room full of cash was brilliant. That should instantly get students attention in general and to how they might count their future stash. I'm interested in hearing how well that assignment did in both learning and creative solutions from students.

spacelizard 10y ago

Most educational systems are rooted in child-care, not in actually educating students. And the ones that do have the resources to properly educate students are often so entrenched in politics and status that they become better conduits for indoctrination instead of empowering students to better make decisions themselves. Like any old organization problems, it is going to be incredibly difficult for them to shed that history.