4 ms·

Well, do you not own your home if an association can force you not to paint an icon on your roof or put certain statues in your yard? I would say so. I have alw

Well, do you not own your home if an association can force you not to paint an icon on your roof or put certain statues in your yard? I would say so. I have always seen homeowners associations as a grevious affront to the First Amendment. But apparently I am missing something vital or I am insane.

gradys 10y ago
You are missing something vital. The First Amendment guarantees that the government cannot restrict speech, free association, etc. Homeowners associations are not the government. They are private organizations. You generally agree to follow their rules as part of the contract you sign when purchasing the property.
- adrusi 10y ago
  But why do you have to sign that contract? Why does this private organization have the power to force you to sign a contract before purchasing property? Because the munucipal government has granted them that power. The way the bill of rights is applied to municipal governments isn't clear, but in my opinion this is an overreach.
- daodedickinson 10y ago
  Well, then it proves my point that you don't own the land or home. The HOA government does.
hasbroslasher 10y ago
Homeowners associations aren't the government, you technically agree to join them when you buy the house. It's "free exchange of goods and services" - quotes to indicate that it really isn't but in the government's eyes it's fine. Social coercion is a powerful force, the same that produces many odd laws.
mikestew 10y ago
* I have always seen homeowners associations as a grevious affront to the First Amendment. But apparently I am missing something vital or I am insane.* The 1st refers to the government, not to housing communities to which you willingly moved. Don't like HOAs? Don't live in an HOA community. The government has no hand in this.
- tlrobinson 10y ago
  Legally you are correct. > Don't like HOAs? Don't live in an HOA community. That's becoming harder and harder. Currently 68 million Americans live in some sort of community association [1] and that's constantly rising. These are essentially hyper-local governments. I can "willingly move" between cities and states and yet city and state governments also can not infringe upon constitutional rights (though they certainly sometimes try). It doesn't seem like a big stretch to hold HOAs to the same standard when you're talking about putting restrictions on something as fundamental as someone's residence. That isn't to say they aren't allowed to make any rules governing the community. 1. https://www.caionline.org/AboutCommunityAssociations/Pages/StatisticalInformation.aspx https://www.caionline.org/AboutCommunityAssociations/Pages/S...
  - mahyarm 10y ago
    That is why there are law regulating HOAs, and they talk about that exact mini-government issue you talk about. Ex: https://www.calhomelaw.org/doc.asp?id=460 https://www.calhomelaw.org/doc.asp?id=460 You can also say something similar about corporations.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Some cities/states are effectively or actually forcing all new development to include a HOA as part of the developer opening up that tract of land, under the auspices of reducing the cost of maintenance by foisting that upon the HOA/community directly.
- stale2002 10y ago
  And what gives the HOA authority? What happens if I say "Screw you HOA, I am going to ignore you". The answer is that the GOVERNMENT enforces its will.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    And leaves itself open to huge injustices. Like the fact that the HOA can lien your house for as little as $100 in dues. And can then sell your house out from under you. If you're _really_ unlucky, they'll sell it to a landlord who sits on the board of the HOA, and the board of the HOA will accept the sale for less than half of the market price, with the landlord buying the house being one of the deciding votes...

gradys 10y ago

You are missing something vital. The First Amendment guarantees that the government cannot restrict speech, free association, etc. Homeowners associations are not the government. They are private organizations. You generally agree to follow their rules as part of the contract you sign when purchasing the property.

adrusi 10y ago
But why do you have to sign that contract? Why does this private organization have the power to force you to sign a contract before purchasing property? Because the munucipal government has granted them that power. The way the bill of rights is applied to municipal governments isn't clear, but in my opinion this is an overreach.
daodedickinson 10y ago
Well, then it proves my point that you don't own the land or home. The HOA government does.

hasbroslasher 10y ago

Homeowners associations aren't the government, you technically agree to join them when you buy the house. It's "free exchange of goods and services" - quotes to indicate that it really isn't but in the government's eyes it's fine. Social coercion is a powerful force, the same that produces many odd laws.

mikestew 10y ago

* I have always seen homeowners associations as a grevious affront to the First Amendment. But apparently I am missing something vital or I am insane.* The 1st refers to the government, not to housing communities to which you willingly moved. Don't like HOAs? Don't live in an HOA community. The government has no hand in this.

tlrobinson 10y ago
Legally you are correct. > Don't like HOAs? Don't live in an HOA community. That's becoming harder and harder. Currently 68 million Americans live in some sort of community association [1] and that's constantly rising. These are essentially hyper-local governments. I can "willingly move" between cities and states and yet city and state governments also can not infringe upon constitutional rights (though they certainly sometimes try). It doesn't seem like a big stretch to hold HOAs to the same standard when you're talking about putting restrictions on something as fundamental as someone's residence. That isn't to say they aren't allowed to make any rules governing the community. 1. https://www.caionline.org/AboutCommunityAssociations/Pages/StatisticalInformation.aspx https://www.caionline.org/AboutCommunityAssociations/Pages/S...
- mahyarm 10y ago
  That is why there are law regulating HOAs, and they talk about that exact mini-government issue you talk about. Ex: https://www.calhomelaw.org/doc.asp?id=460 https://www.calhomelaw.org/doc.asp?id=460 You can also say something similar about corporations.
FireBeyond 10y ago
Some cities/states are effectively or actually forcing all new development to include a HOA as part of the developer opening up that tract of land, under the auspices of reducing the cost of maintenance by foisting that upon the HOA/community directly.
stale2002 10y ago
And what gives the HOA authority? What happens if I say "Screw you HOA, I am going to ignore you". The answer is that the GOVERNMENT enforces its will.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  And leaves itself open to huge injustices. Like the fact that the HOA can lien your house for as little as $100 in dues. And can then sell your house out from under you. If you're _really_ unlucky, they'll sell it to a landlord who sits on the board of the HOA, and the board of the HOA will accept the sale for less than half of the market price, with the landlord buying the house being one of the deciding votes...