6 ms·

I'm not well-versed in these trade talks, but you know what really grinds my gears about Canada's current protectionism? Butter. No, really. In Canada, the da

I'm not well-versed in these trade talks, but you know what really grinds my gears about Canada's current protectionism? Butter. No, really. In Canada, the dairy industry is run by a single co-op. That means that all milk and milk-based products must be sourced from the co-op (i.e. your provincial dairy bank). So all butter in Canada comes from the provincial supply. Want locally-sourced butter? It's nearly impossible to obtain, and even if you can, it's extremely expensive due to tariffs. Want butter that's completely grass-fed? It's possible, but also extremely expensive, and it comes from the provincial bank, so it's possibly mixed with other cows and/or milk. And all butter is 80% milk fat, which is abysmally low. European dairy is 85%, sometimes 90+%. Only very recently has it been possible to buy "New Zealand" grass-fed butter here, but it's $11 per 1/2 pound, likely due to import tariffs. And it goes through a local dairy, so I'm not 100% confident it's truly New Zealand milk. Nor can I confirm its fat percentage, so I could be just paying for a lot of water. If you want to drive across the border to buy butter and bring it back, be prepared to answer a lot of questions to the CBSA, and possibly pay more tariffs, making it prohibitively expensive. This applies to most other agricultural products too, like cheese, eggs, wheat, and more. Getting good cheese in Canada is expensive and hard. The fact that the article mentions that the CETA made strides in agricultural issues tells me that what I cited above is a possible issue in these trade negotiations. The same was true for TPP. I'll be really happy when these trade deals pass so I can get some real food at a decent price, and my local farmers can be given an opportunity to compete. Until then, the biggest opponents to these deals are farmers. That should make you question their motives.

vkou 10y ago
> If you want to drive across the border to buy butter and bring it back, be prepared to answer a lot of questions to the CBSA, and possibly pay more tariffs, making it prohibitively expensive. My father does a lot of cross-border shopping at an American Costco (BC -> Washington). Among other groceries, he always buys butter, cheese, milk, and often brings back various second-hand/electronic goods shipped to a US PO box. Canadian border guards almost never ask him stupid questions - and I don't believe he's ever been interrogated about dairy products in particular. It might help that he: 1. Has his role in typical and atypical border-control conversations memorized. 2. Looks like a cave man who hasn't shaved in a decade.
- nickff 10y ago
  Canadians regularly go across the border to buy butter, cheese, and other dairy products; much of it depends on what border crossing they use, what province they are in, and how much they bring back. People from near Vancouver, BC regularly cross over to Blaine, WA to buy cheese and gasoline (both of which are much cheaper in WA than BC), and are rarely tariff-ed at the border; there is even a 'dairy' (milk product store) in Blaine (which is a small town).
- deskamess 10y ago
  Similar experience here. Cross the border in Ontario into NY. Shop at Watertown (or Syracuse). Bring back, amongst other things, butter and dairy products up to our limit (and never more). Our most expensive "item" is usually something else and that is what I am most often asked about. The border crossing has been pleasant on both sides. Now the frequency of our trips may have a bearing - just twice a year - once in Mar/April and once before school starts.
schwarrrtz 10y ago
Yeah, totally. There are some good Canadian cheeses but for the most part the local dairies seem focused on producing large quantities of cheddar. I'd love to be able to buy more European cheeses at a decent price.
- mhurron 10y ago
  Just an aside, I wish I could get Old or Extra Old cheddar as cheap in the US as I could in Canada.
nibs 10y ago
Dairy-free Canadian here. Two things you could do: vote with your mouth and wallet. Or support a very intelligent Canadian lawyer who is seeking to do what you describe: https://marthahallfindlay.ca/viewpoints/supply-management/ https://marthahallfindlay.ca/viewpoints/supply-management/
3pt14159 10y ago
I'm pretty wary of American meat and cheese though. The animal welfare conditions south of the boarder are abysmal and the cheese facility inspections are not unannounced, they are booked days in advance, and I've heard some pretty awful stuff. Don't like the current system either, but it does have a couple of advantages.
- HorizonXP 10y ago
  100% agree. I've said this to many friends: in Canada, the cheapest meats, vegetables, and dairy that you can buy is very good quality for the price. However, if you want to spend extra money on better quality food, you have to pay a lot more money, and it's not that much better. In the US, you can get really cheap food, but it's very poor quality. I wouldn't want to serve it to my family. However, if you want to spend a little more money (close to what we pay in Canada for normal quality), you can get really good quality food that surpasses what we get in Canada for much more money. I'm cognizant of the conditions we put our livestock in, and I try to source food from better sources, but it's a real hit on your pocketbook. To me, the US system is definitely far from perfect, but the free-market system seems to work more in my favour. I'm not sure how it works overall (i.e. is it sustainable for the farmers?), but I can usually only worry about myself.
nickspacek 10y ago
We live near the border, and I've never seen anyone questioned (myself included) when bringing dairy across; it's one of the primary purchases of people visiting the US side.
unsquare 10y ago
>No, really. In Canada, the dairy industry is run by a single co-op. That means that all milk and milk-based products must be sourced from the co-op (i.e. your provincial dairy bank). Number of large dairy processing companies in Quebec: 3 multinationals, Agropur, a cooperative, and Saputo, a private company, both originally from Quebec, and Parmalat, from Italy, process over 80% of the milk Number of mid-sized dairy processing companies in Quebec: 35 mid-sized companies process 19% of the milk http://lait.org/en/the-farm-in-action/the-production-scenario/processing/ http://lait.org/en/the-farm-in-action/the-production-scenari... >Getting good cheese in Canada is expensive and hard. Quebec’s share of cheese production in Canada: 51% https://www.fromagesdici.com/repertoire https://www.fromagesdici.com/repertoire I've never run out of good cheeses here, maybe outside of Quebec it's harder to get your hands on good cheeses, but here it's everywhere. I'll concede, we don't have the greatest butter, but as times goes on, they'll wise up, we didn't have real fresh creme before, now we do. >and my local farmers can be given an opportunity to compete. Until then, the biggest opponents to these deals are farmers. That should make you question their motives. Our farmers and local food producers deserve more recognition then we give them. They usually come from long lines of farmers and they've lived the high and lows of market prices due to globalization, i don't think they want to go back to having to guess how much the price of their milk will be or if there's going to be a shortage or if they'll be able afford to feed their cows anymore. Co-op's aren't a perfect solution, but the free market is an impossible utopia.
- HorizonXP 10y ago
  Best cheese I've had in Canada was in Quebec. It's dismal here in Ontario. Best cheese I've had anywhere was Switzerland. And it was similarly priced to what we pay here for Black Diamond cheese, which is mass-produced but serviceable. Good quality local cheese does exist, but you're spending upwards of $20-$30/kg. That makes it something you only buy on really special occasions. Given that in Europe you can buy cheese that tastes better but is a tenth of the cost, I have to question the prices in Canada. All things are likely not equal between both countries, but the protectionism can't be helping to drive down costs and is likely doing the opposite.
  - 10y ago
atomic77 10y ago
The fact that in Canada cheese tends to be more expensive than beef, by weight, has always struck me as a strange artifact of some kind of political arrangement
flycaliguy 10y ago
I've spoken to an Ontario dairy farmer in the past about Palm Oil and it's production's effect on the environment. He let me know that they use it in the feed, so no avoiding it through him.

vkou 10y ago

> If you want to drive across the border to buy butter and bring it back, be prepared to answer a lot of questions to the CBSA, and possibly pay more tariffs, making it prohibitively expensive. My father does a lot of cross-border shopping at an American Costco (BC -> Washington). Among other groceries, he always buys butter, cheese, milk, and often brings back various second-hand/electronic goods shipped to a US PO box. Canadian border guards almost never ask him stupid questions - and I don't believe he's ever been interrogated about dairy products in particular. It might help that he: 1. Has his role in typical and atypical border-control conversations memorized. 2. Looks like a cave man who hasn't shaved in a decade.

nickff 10y ago
Canadians regularly go across the border to buy butter, cheese, and other dairy products; much of it depends on what border crossing they use, what province they are in, and how much they bring back. People from near Vancouver, BC regularly cross over to Blaine, WA to buy cheese and gasoline (both of which are much cheaper in WA than BC), and are rarely tariff-ed at the border; there is even a 'dairy' (milk product store) in Blaine (which is a small town).
deskamess 10y ago
Similar experience here. Cross the border in Ontario into NY. Shop at Watertown (or Syracuse). Bring back, amongst other things, butter and dairy products up to our limit (and never more). Our most expensive "item" is usually something else and that is what I am most often asked about. The border crossing has been pleasant on both sides. Now the frequency of our trips may have a bearing - just twice a year - once in Mar/April and once before school starts.

schwarrrtz 10y ago

Yeah, totally. There are some good Canadian cheeses but for the most part the local dairies seem focused on producing large quantities of cheddar. I'd love to be able to buy more European cheeses at a decent price.

mhurron 10y ago
Just an aside, I wish I could get Old or Extra Old cheddar as cheap in the US as I could in Canada.

nibs 10y ago

Dairy-free Canadian here. Two things you could do: vote with your mouth and wallet. Or support a very intelligent Canadian lawyer who is seeking to do what you describe: https://marthahallfindlay.ca/viewpoints/supply-management/ https://marthahallfindlay.ca/viewpoints/supply-management/

3pt14159 10y ago

I'm pretty wary of American meat and cheese though. The animal welfare conditions south of the boarder are abysmal and the cheese facility inspections are not unannounced, they are booked days in advance, and I've heard some pretty awful stuff. Don't like the current system either, but it does have a couple of advantages.

HorizonXP 10y ago
100% agree. I've said this to many friends: in Canada, the cheapest meats, vegetables, and dairy that you can buy is very good quality for the price. However, if you want to spend extra money on better quality food, you have to pay a lot more money, and it's not that much better. In the US, you can get really cheap food, but it's very poor quality. I wouldn't want to serve it to my family. However, if you want to spend a little more money (close to what we pay in Canada for normal quality), you can get really good quality food that surpasses what we get in Canada for much more money. I'm cognizant of the conditions we put our livestock in, and I try to source food from better sources, but it's a real hit on your pocketbook. To me, the US system is definitely far from perfect, but the free-market system seems to work more in my favour. I'm not sure how it works overall (i.e. is it sustainable for the farmers?), but I can usually only worry about myself.

nickspacek 10y ago

We live near the border, and I've never seen anyone questioned (myself included) when bringing dairy across; it's one of the primary purchases of people visiting the US side.

unsquare 10y ago

>No, really. In Canada, the dairy industry is run by a single co-op. That means that all milk and milk-based products must be sourced from the co-op (i.e. your provincial dairy bank). Number of large dairy processing companies in Quebec: 3 multinationals, Agropur, a cooperative, and Saputo, a private company, both originally from Quebec, and Parmalat, from Italy, process over 80% of the milk Number of mid-sized dairy processing companies in Quebec: 35 mid-sized companies process 19% of the milk http://lait.org/en/the-farm-in-action/the-production-scenario/processing/ http://lait.org/en/the-farm-in-action/the-production-scenari... >Getting good cheese in Canada is expensive and hard. Quebec’s share of cheese production in Canada: 51% https://www.fromagesdici.com/repertoire https://www.fromagesdici.com/repertoire I've never run out of good cheeses here, maybe outside of Quebec it's harder to get your hands on good cheeses, but here it's everywhere. I'll concede, we don't have the greatest butter, but as times goes on, they'll wise up, we didn't have real fresh creme before, now we do. >and my local farmers can be given an opportunity to compete. Until then, the biggest opponents to these deals are farmers. That should make you question their motives. Our farmers and local food producers deserve more recognition then we give them. They usually come from long lines of farmers and they've lived the high and lows of market prices due to globalization, i don't think they want to go back to having to guess how much the price of their milk will be or if there's going to be a shortage or if they'll be able afford to feed their cows anymore. Co-op's aren't a perfect solution, but the free market is an impossible utopia.

HorizonXP 10y ago
Best cheese I've had in Canada was in Quebec. It's dismal here in Ontario. Best cheese I've had anywhere was Switzerland. And it was similarly priced to what we pay here for Black Diamond cheese, which is mass-produced but serviceable. Good quality local cheese does exist, but you're spending upwards of $20-$30/kg. That makes it something you only buy on really special occasions. Given that in Europe you can buy cheese that tastes better but is a tenth of the cost, I have to question the prices in Canada. All things are likely not equal between both countries, but the protectionism can't be helping to drive down costs and is likely doing the opposite.
- 10y ago

atomic77 10y ago

The fact that in Canada cheese tends to be more expensive than beef, by weight, has always struck me as a strange artifact of some kind of political arrangement

flycaliguy 10y ago

I've spoken to an Ontario dairy farmer in the past about Palm Oil and it's production's effect on the environment. He let me know that they use it in the feed, so no avoiding it through him.