3 ms·

Plenty of people (including me) took one or two looks at RoR and dismissed it, too. I don't think it was the slam-dunk you're making it out to be. React seems t

by inimino 10y ago

Plenty of people (including me) took one or two looks at RoR and dismissed it, too. I don't think it was the slam-dunk you're making it out to be. React seems to be doing pretty well these days, but it is too soon to say if it is going to dominate the field.

niftich 10y ago
On the contrary; Rails was a massive innovation because it proved that opinionated, reasonable defaults ("convention over configuration") is how most people actually want to write software. For a CRUD app, Rails was a shining beacon of light, because it allowed you to crank one out in mere hours, instead of days of fiddling with repetitive glue code that you would've had to write instead in literally any other web framework of your choice. It meant average coders could be productive instead of overwhelmed, and competent coders could move on to different projects faster. The GP post has a point. Almost every MV* JS framework starts from scratch because they all believe their slight variation of the paradigm is better than everyone else's, but the greater scheme of things they are more similar than different. When one comes out with a framework that in earnest changes how JS development is done -- and achieves some staying power -- things will be different from the myriad of near-equivalent-but-totally-incompatible choices.
- inimino 10y ago
  > how most people actually want to write software. [citation needed] Honestly, Rails wasn't the first or last RAD platform and I don't think a randomly-selected subset of programmers who have used it would describe it as a shining beacon of light. JS frameworks are actually pretty diverse, and if you think the ecosystem is a bunch of MV* variants just waiting for something innovative to come along, with respect, you just aren't familiar with what's out there.
  - szatkus 10y ago
    Can you tell something about your favourite alternative to RoR way?
  - niftich 10y ago
    > [citation needed] Okay. The year is 2005. PHP5 was fresh out of the oven and most people were still on PHP4. From PHP's point of view, there's rumors of something happening in the Ruby community that will be big, and should be talked about [1]. Then Rails 1.0 drops at the end of the year. From this Slashdot thread [2] on the announcement you can gauge the contemporary reaction; comments detail the fact that Rails was breath of fresh air from the configuration-heavy Java frameworks of the day -- represented by Struts [3], but others weren't much different in this regard, as these books from 2002 and 2004 about alternatives to Struts show [4][5]. Several ASP developers, detail their positive experiences in switching their web development to Rails [6][7][8]. The PHP world is forever changed -- by 2006, frameworks inspired by Rails abound [9]. "Ruby on Rails" becomes a popular phrase, some frameworks borrow the naming scheme along with the ideas: "Groovy on Grails" [10] tries to bring Rails' ideas to the Java world, "PHP on Trax" (formerly "PHP on Rails" [9]), "ColdFusion on Wheels" [11]. I'd say Rails made quite the splash. [1] https://blog.phpdeveloper.org/2005/12/31/25/ https://blog.phpdeveloper.org/2005/12/31/25/ [2] https://developers.slashdot.org/story/05/12/14/0034219/ruby-on-rails-10-released https://developers.slashdot.org/story/05/12/14/0034219/ruby-... [3] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/2/22/comparing-struts-to-action-pack-railties/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/2/22/comparing-struts-to-... [4] https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-jakarta-struts/0596003285/ch01s08.html https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-j... [5] https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-jakarta-struts/0596006519/ch01s07.html https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-j... [6] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/6/28/asp-net-vs-rails-analysis-from-a-veteran/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/6/28/asp-net-vs-rails-ana... [7] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/12/20/neters-tell-scoble-why-they-left-for-rails/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/12/20/neters-tell-scoble-... [8] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/7/5/not-knowing-where-it-hurts-in-asp-net/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/7/5/not-knowing-where-it-... [9] https://h3rald.com/articles/rails-inspired-php-frameworks/ https://h3rald.com/articles/rails-inspired-php-frameworks/ [10] http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Groovy-on-Rails-is-no-more-kind-of-td1313422.html http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Groovy-on-Rails-is-no-mo... [11] http://cfwheels.org/blog/how-oo-almost-destroyed-business/ http://cfwheels.org/blog/how-oo-almost-destroyed-business/
    - vorg 10y ago

by inimino 10y ago

niftich 10y ago

On the contrary; Rails was a massive innovation because it proved that opinionated, reasonable defaults ("convention over configuration") is how most people actually want to write software. For a CRUD app, Rails was a shining beacon of light, because it allowed you to crank one out in mere hours, instead of days of fiddling with repetitive glue code that you would've had to write instead in literally any other web framework of your choice. It meant average coders could be productive instead of overwhelmed, and competent coders could move on to different projects faster. The GP post has a point. Almost every MV* JS framework starts from scratch because they all believe their slight variation of the paradigm is better than everyone else's, but the greater scheme of things they are more similar than different. When one comes out with a framework that in earnest changes how JS development is done -- and achieves some staying power -- things will be different from the myriad of near-equivalent-but-totally-incompatible choices.

inimino 10y ago
> how most people actually want to write software. [citation needed] Honestly, Rails wasn't the first or last RAD platform and I don't think a randomly-selected subset of programmers who have used it would describe it as a shining beacon of light. JS frameworks are actually pretty diverse, and if you think the ecosystem is a bunch of MV* variants just waiting for something innovative to come along, with respect, you just aren't familiar with what's out there.
- szatkus 10y ago
  Can you tell something about your favourite alternative to RoR way?
- niftich 10y ago
  > [citation needed] Okay. The year is 2005. PHP5 was fresh out of the oven and most people were still on PHP4. From PHP's point of view, there's rumors of something happening in the Ruby community that will be big, and should be talked about [1]. Then Rails 1.0 drops at the end of the year. From this Slashdot thread [2] on the announcement you can gauge the contemporary reaction; comments detail the fact that Rails was breath of fresh air from the configuration-heavy Java frameworks of the day -- represented by Struts [3], but others weren't much different in this regard, as these books from 2002 and 2004 about alternatives to Struts show [4][5]. Several ASP developers, detail their positive experiences in switching their web development to Rails [6][7][8]. The PHP world is forever changed -- by 2006, frameworks inspired by Rails abound [9]. "Ruby on Rails" becomes a popular phrase, some frameworks borrow the naming scheme along with the ideas: "Groovy on Grails" [10] tries to bring Rails' ideas to the Java world, "PHP on Trax" (formerly "PHP on Rails" [9]), "ColdFusion on Wheels" [11]. I'd say Rails made quite the splash. [1] https://blog.phpdeveloper.org/2005/12/31/25/ https://blog.phpdeveloper.org/2005/12/31/25/ [2] https://developers.slashdot.org/story/05/12/14/0034219/ruby-on-rails-10-released https://developers.slashdot.org/story/05/12/14/0034219/ruby-... [3] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/2/22/comparing-struts-to-action-pack-railties/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/2/22/comparing-struts-to-... [4] https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-jakarta-struts/0596003285/ch01s08.html https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-j... [5] https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-jakarta-struts/0596006519/ch01s07.html https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/programming-j... [6] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/6/28/asp-net-vs-rails-analysis-from-a-veteran/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/6/28/asp-net-vs-rails-ana... [7] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/12/20/neters-tell-scoble-why-they-left-for-rails/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/12/20/neters-tell-scoble-... [8] http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/7/5/not-knowing-where-it-hurts-in-asp-net/ http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2005/7/5/not-knowing-where-it-... [9] https://h3rald.com/articles/rails-inspired-php-frameworks/ https://h3rald.com/articles/rails-inspired-php-frameworks/ [10] http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Groovy-on-Rails-is-no-more-kind-of-td1313422.html http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Groovy-on-Rails-is-no-mo... [11] http://cfwheels.org/blog/how-oo-almost-destroyed-business/ http://cfwheels.org/blog/how-oo-almost-destroyed-business/
  - vorg 10y ago