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I actually interviewed with Jacob Schatz when he was trying to figure out which frontend framework to use for GitLab. I had been working in React for the last y

by 49531 10y ago

I actually interviewed with Jacob Schatz when he was trying to figure out which frontend framework to use for GitLab. I had been working in React for the last year or so which was apparent on my resume. He prefaced our interview with something to the effect of "I know you do a lot of React but we are not going to ever use React at GitLab" It was weird. I tried to ascertain his reasoning and pretty much all I got was "just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good". Regardless I think GitLab is an awesome company, I just got the feeling Jacob wanted to use Vue.js because it wasn't the most popular choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

marpstar 10y ago
Is there a name for this "feeling"? I feel this way about a lot of things that get "popular". I feel this way about React, in fact. React is "good" but I don't see it as our end-all be-all front-end savior. Vue.js is a lot more interesting to me because it's not popular...because it's the underdog. This Cracked article gave me a bit of consolation: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-it-sucks-to-hate-popular-things/ http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-it-sucks-to-hate-popul...
- 49531 10y ago
  Oh I am the same way in a lot of things, maybe that's why I assumed it was what he was doing :P Maybe it's just harder to choose a popular option without being seen as jumping on the bandwagon.
- k__ 10y ago
  > Is there a name for this "feeling" I think most people who constantly got this feeling simply didn't outgrow puberty. They just HAVE TO use something different. But it's okay to look into things and check if they fit you, don't just drink the kool aid. The problem is to have this feeling before testing these things.
- linkmotif 10y ago
  Sure popularity ruins many things. Music, movies, books, software libraries. However, you don't have to use React. React is a set of concepts. I personally really enjoy programming with those concepts (I just wish it wasn't JS). If you don't want to use Facebook's implementation, there are many other implementations.
  - iLemming 10y ago
    > I just wish it wasn't JS. Try Clojurescript. It is truly amazing.
    - mixedCase 10y ago
      As long as you can stand Lisps.
      - dragandj 10y ago
        If somebody can stand JavaScript, that somebody can stand anything :)
- kls 10y ago
  Is there a name for this "feeling"? Hipster - Google definition: a person who follows the latest trends and fashions, especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream. So I guess a framework hipster?
- szx 10y ago
  Contrarian? Skeptic?
faitswulff 10y ago
Huh. That's disappointing. I was wondering if it had something to do with the license, considering that Gitlab's allure to certain parties is maintaining control, on-premises if need be.
linkmotif 10y ago
That's exactly how this post sounded to me. Amazing you had this experience explicitly in person. I also found it strange that he didn't name React by name.
jakecodes 10y ago
Hi @49531. Sorry you felt that our conversation was weird. Regardless of my opinion of React, Vue or any Frontend Framework, I never want anyone to have a weird interview. My main feeling with Vue vs. React (maybe this should be a different post, as this post was meant to explain why Vue, and focus on the positives): 1. Vue is minimal to add in with existing code. React, is also not bad, but Vue is much simpler to mix in when you can't do a complete refactor. 2. React has a higher learning curve for large scale. I did not want a DSL. That's more stuff to learn and more things to debug. 3. GitLab's modus operandi has always been to keep things as simple as possible, Vue fits that. React does not. 4. React isn't just React it's many other things that you probably want to include. I've written very large Vue, Angular and React projects in the past. I never had to think twice about which was the easiest to write a large scale project with. Vue scales well. It's never confusing. That doesn't mean that React is bad, or Angular is bad, it just means that the next time I have a choice I'll just choose Vue.
- 49531 10y ago
  Hi Jacob, the interview wasn't weird. Just that aspect of it :). I get it that implementing a big build process in an existing project can be crazy and not worth the effort, especially since GitLab's frontend lives inside of its rails app. I wouldn't be concerned about DSL issues with React though, the API is 90% vanilla JavaScript. I also didn't want to implicate that the Vue.js / React stuff was the reason I didn't get the job at GitLab! The interview process was great and very open.
- catshirt 10y ago
  1. i can't agree. it's possible to integrate React into your application one component at a time. how is Vue "much simpler to mix in"? 2. i think this depends on your background. if you've had the pleasures and displeasures of working through all the trials and errors of jQuery, then Backbone, then Ember, then Angular... React is painfully obvious to work with. because the problems it solves, the ways it solves them, and reasons for doing so are clear. if you're a new JS developer, maybe Vue probably has an easier learning curve. i'm also not sure why we are calling it a DSL when it's entirely plain JS. Vue templating- now that's a DSL. 3. valiant modus, but keep it contextual. simple can bite you in the ass. people don't introduce complexity for no reason (unless they don't know what they're doing, of course). 4. no... React is in fact just React. you can build a working UI without any supplemental React libraries. how is it "many other things" any more than Vue is?
burger_moon 10y ago
I recently interviewed with him and did a collab code thing and he personally admitted to being quite rusty as he doesn't write code much anymore and it was apparent by the errors he was making. I'm surprised he was the one leading the decision in what framework to use when the extent of skills seems to cut off around jQuery. Is it normal in a large company for someone who is now doing managerial type work to be the decision maker in what the tech stack should be for the company? Or rather, shouldn't they make their decision based on a consensus of the developers opinions and research? Not trying to be snarky, or anything, I work at a smaller/ medium sized company and this is how it's done, so maybe large companies operate different.
- catshirt 10y ago
  it's not uncommon. someone has to make a decision and it makes sense early managers are not best suited to make technical decisions. as a company or application grows technical deficiencies resulting from bad choices will start to rear their heads and new hires with more experience will hopefully illuminate those issues. the only reason they chose vue, the article suggests, is because it's "simple". even if I concede that to be true, it is not the most important factor when making technical decisions and you will ultimately end up paying for it.

by 49531 10y ago

marpstar 10y ago

Is there a name for this "feeling"? I feel this way about a lot of things that get "popular". I feel this way about React, in fact. React is "good" but I don't see it as our end-all be-all front-end savior. Vue.js is a lot more interesting to me because it's not popular...because it's the underdog. This Cracked article gave me a bit of consolation: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-it-sucks-to-hate-popular-things/ http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-it-sucks-to-hate-popul...

49531 10y ago
Oh I am the same way in a lot of things, maybe that's why I assumed it was what he was doing :P Maybe it's just harder to choose a popular option without being seen as jumping on the bandwagon.
k__ 10y ago
> Is there a name for this "feeling" I think most people who constantly got this feeling simply didn't outgrow puberty. They just HAVE TO use something different. But it's okay to look into things and check if they fit you, don't just drink the kool aid. The problem is to have this feeling before testing these things.
linkmotif 10y ago
Sure popularity ruins many things. Music, movies, books, software libraries. However, you don't have to use React. React is a set of concepts. I personally really enjoy programming with those concepts (I just wish it wasn't JS). If you don't want to use Facebook's implementation, there are many other implementations.
- iLemming 10y ago
  > I just wish it wasn't JS. Try Clojurescript. It is truly amazing.
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    As long as you can stand Lisps.
    - dragandj 10y ago
      If somebody can stand JavaScript, that somebody can stand anything :)
kls 10y ago
Is there a name for this "feeling"? Hipster - Google definition: a person who follows the latest trends and fashions, especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream. So I guess a framework hipster?
szx 10y ago
Contrarian? Skeptic?

faitswulff 10y ago

Huh. That's disappointing. I was wondering if it had something to do with the license, considering that Gitlab's allure to certain parties is maintaining control, on-premises if need be.

linkmotif 10y ago

That's exactly how this post sounded to me. Amazing you had this experience explicitly in person. I also found it strange that he didn't name React by name.

jakecodes 10y ago

Hi @49531. Sorry you felt that our conversation was weird. Regardless of my opinion of React, Vue or any Frontend Framework, I never want anyone to have a weird interview. My main feeling with Vue vs. React (maybe this should be a different post, as this post was meant to explain why Vue, and focus on the positives): 1. Vue is minimal to add in with existing code. React, is also not bad, but Vue is much simpler to mix in when you can't do a complete refactor. 2. React has a higher learning curve for large scale. I did not want a DSL. That's more stuff to learn and more things to debug. 3. GitLab's modus operandi has always been to keep things as simple as possible, Vue fits that. React does not. 4. React isn't just React it's many other things that you probably want to include. I've written very large Vue, Angular and React projects in the past. I never had to think twice about which was the easiest to write a large scale project with. Vue scales well. It's never confusing. That doesn't mean that React is bad, or Angular is bad, it just means that the next time I have a choice I'll just choose Vue.

49531 10y ago
Hi Jacob, the interview wasn't weird. Just that aspect of it :). I get it that implementing a big build process in an existing project can be crazy and not worth the effort, especially since GitLab's frontend lives inside of its rails app. I wouldn't be concerned about DSL issues with React though, the API is 90% vanilla JavaScript. I also didn't want to implicate that the Vue.js / React stuff was the reason I didn't get the job at GitLab! The interview process was great and very open.
catshirt 10y ago
1. i can't agree. it's possible to integrate React into your application one component at a time. how is Vue "much simpler to mix in"? 2. i think this depends on your background. if you've had the pleasures and displeasures of working through all the trials and errors of jQuery, then Backbone, then Ember, then Angular... React is painfully obvious to work with. because the problems it solves, the ways it solves them, and reasons for doing so are clear. if you're a new JS developer, maybe Vue probably has an easier learning curve. i'm also not sure why we are calling it a DSL when it's entirely plain JS. Vue templating- now that's a DSL. 3. valiant modus, but keep it contextual. simple can bite you in the ass. people don't introduce complexity for no reason (unless they don't know what they're doing, of course). 4. no... React is in fact just React. you can build a working UI without any supplemental React libraries. how is it "many other things" any more than Vue is?

burger_moon 10y ago

I recently interviewed with him and did a collab code thing and he personally admitted to being quite rusty as he doesn't write code much anymore and it was apparent by the errors he was making. I'm surprised he was the one leading the decision in what framework to use when the extent of skills seems to cut off around jQuery. Is it normal in a large company for someone who is now doing managerial type work to be the decision maker in what the tech stack should be for the company? Or rather, shouldn't they make their decision based on a consensus of the developers opinions and research? Not trying to be snarky, or anything, I work at a smaller/ medium sized company and this is how it's done, so maybe large companies operate different.

catshirt 10y ago
it's not uncommon. someone has to make a decision and it makes sense early managers are not best suited to make technical decisions. as a company or application grows technical deficiencies resulting from bad choices will start to rear their heads and new hires with more experience will hopefully illuminate those issues. the only reason they chose vue, the article suggests, is because it's "simple". even if I concede that to be true, it is not the most important factor when making technical decisions and you will ultimately end up paying for it.