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His argument is that current HS math doesn't provide enough distractions. Students don't learn to focus on the problem at hand, because the problem is already

by adamtj 17y ago

His argument is that current HS math doesn't provide enough distractions. Students don't learn to focus on the problem at hand, because the problem is already in sharp focus. All the variables are provided. The word problem is a slightly jumbled description of the formula to use. All you have to do is look up the formula, then plug in the variables. Your students can't solve the travelling problem for the very reasons he's talking about. That problem is completely unlike anything they've ever solved in high school, because it doesn't give them the numbers to average. It's a two step problem where they need to use the given numbers in one formula, to get the resulting numbers for the second. HS students don't learn to solve problems: they learn to match paragraphs to formulas, then plug and chug. Also, don't be such a purist. It's not useful. There is a great deal of overlap between math and physics. Physicists often invent new math to understand physics, and old math is often found to describe some newly discovered physical phenomenon.

yequalsx 17y ago
You wrote: "HS students don't learn to solve problems: they learn to match paragraphs to formulas, then plug and chug." I agree completely and this is why I advocate for an end to the focus on so called practical word problems in high school in algebra classes. It should be in physics where one learns about travelling problems not in algebra. The focus on so called practical word problems is not accomplishing the goal and it's distracting from the learning of mathematics.
- dhimes 17y ago
  I taught physics in a community college as a full-time prof for 10 years, and had the occasion to teach math there a few times as well. After that stint, I started work with an ed software company developing math content for algebra students in the cc. In my experience, the "word problems" can be used to motivate the students as to the interesting part of what they are studying. My focus wasn't on making them learn how to reason through complicated applications, it was on getting them to master the skills. So in that sense I agree with you. However, building a story around it (how do you determine which cell phone plan to buy?) helps keep their attention and shows them that they- yes THEY (the "bottom of the barrel" as was noted above- but I'll clarify this below)-- can apply math to their lives and live more intelligently. And getting students to that stage is my life's mission. I think where math goes wrong is displayed beautifully in the rational expressions units (I didn't go to the original link, so forgive me if I'm entirely redundant here). When I was building the math content for the ed s/w company I was struck that nowhere in the chapter where students learn to simplify fractions involving a polynomial numerator and a polynomial denominator (tough stuff when you are first learning it) nowhere in the textbooks did they tell the student WHY. Why do all this hard work? What is the answer that we seek from all this? [rant] About the idea of "stupid teachers teaching stupid students" in community college: Anyone who truly speaks from experience knows better. In a cosmopolitan setting you will have downright brilliant students in your classes- especially in your night classes. I've had many ivy-leaguers in my classes, top accountants for Exxon-Mobile and other high-power operators, sometimes from government agencies (I taught in Alexandria Virginia, about a mile from the Pentagon, where Mrs. Biden currently teaches). A common reason for them to be there? They've burned out in their careers and want to do something that "makes a difference." Going to med or vet school was common. They've got the degree, they've got the grades, they just need a couple of classes that they didn't take as undergrads, they're too smart to spend the money on a school that won't help them any more than a little ol' cc will. Keeping their job for an extra year and taking night classes is a smart move, so they come to the local cc. [/rant]
  - yequalsx 17y ago
    "I think where math goes wrong is displayed beautifully in the rational expressions units (I didn't go to the original link, so forgive me if I'm entirely redundant here). When I was building the math content for the ed s/w company I was struck that nowhere in the chapter where students learn to simplify fractions involving a polynomial numerator and a polynomial denominator (tough stuff when you are first learning it) nowhere in the textbooks did they tell the student WHY. Why do all this hard work? What is the answer that we seek from all this?" What do you think are the answers to your questions?
    - dhimes 17y ago
      One thing that was quite easy to do is to set the rational expression equal to something and solve for one of the variables. We did a lot of problems where there was only one variable: (x^2+9x+20)/(x^2-25) In motivating them you don't necessarily have to give every reason to learn something, just reason enough to buy into what you are trying to teach them.
      - yequalsx 17y ago
        But the motivation for solving complicated rational equations does not come from word problems. The word problems for this topic involve very simple rational functions. My point has been that the motivation for studying and doing much of mathematics ought not come, solely, from practical word problems.
        dhimes 17y ago
        I agree with you that you (we) shouldn't feel the need to have a one-to-one mapping between problems we solve and word problems. Even in elementary physics you could argue that the word problems in many cases aren't practical, but we teach it to teach the flavor of the approach; the attitude of how we attack problems (or, less poetically, what exactly we mean when we say "cause and effect"). That said, the motivation is still greater when the students see some hope that what they are learning is meaningful. What that motivation is depends on the level of the class. For algebra 2, it might be "we learn to manipulate rational functions because it gives us a tool to understand (or solve) a certain class of problems. Someday you may own a business where you have to worry about the average cost of something that depends on things that change alot, or variables as we call them. And you know what an average is: it's the amount of something divided by how many there are. Well if your amounts are represented by an algebraic expression, and your total is represented by an algebraic expression, then the quantity you will be interested in will look something like this (writes a rational function on the board). Now, what the fuck do we do with this?"

by adamtj 17y ago

yequalsx 17y ago

You wrote: "HS students don't learn to solve problems: they learn to match paragraphs to formulas, then plug and chug." I agree completely and this is why I advocate for an end to the focus on so called practical word problems in high school in algebra classes. It should be in physics where one learns about travelling problems not in algebra. The focus on so called practical word problems is not accomplishing the goal and it's distracting from the learning of mathematics.

dhimes 17y ago
I taught physics in a community college as a full-time prof for 10 years, and had the occasion to teach math there a few times as well. After that stint, I started work with an ed software company developing math content for algebra students in the cc. In my experience, the "word problems" can be used to motivate the students as to the interesting part of what they are studying. My focus wasn't on making them learn how to reason through complicated applications, it was on getting them to master the skills. So in that sense I agree with you. However, building a story around it (how do you determine which cell phone plan to buy?) helps keep their attention and shows them that they- yes THEY (the "bottom of the barrel" as was noted above- but I'll clarify this below)-- can apply math to their lives and live more intelligently. And getting students to that stage is my life's mission. I think where math goes wrong is displayed beautifully in the rational expressions units (I didn't go to the original link, so forgive me if I'm entirely redundant here). When I was building the math content for the ed s/w company I was struck that nowhere in the chapter where students learn to simplify fractions involving a polynomial numerator and a polynomial denominator (tough stuff when you are first learning it) nowhere in the textbooks did they tell the student WHY. Why do all this hard work? What is the answer that we seek from all this? [rant] About the idea of "stupid teachers teaching stupid students" in community college: Anyone who truly speaks from experience knows better. In a cosmopolitan setting you will have downright brilliant students in your classes- especially in your night classes. I've had many ivy-leaguers in my classes, top accountants for Exxon-Mobile and other high-power operators, sometimes from government agencies (I taught in Alexandria Virginia, about a mile from the Pentagon, where Mrs. Biden currently teaches). A common reason for them to be there? They've burned out in their careers and want to do something that "makes a difference." Going to med or vet school was common. They've got the degree, they've got the grades, they just need a couple of classes that they didn't take as undergrads, they're too smart to spend the money on a school that won't help them any more than a little ol' cc will. Keeping their job for an extra year and taking night classes is a smart move, so they come to the local cc. [/rant]
- yequalsx 17y ago
  "I think where math goes wrong is displayed beautifully in the rational expressions units (I didn't go to the original link, so forgive me if I'm entirely redundant here). When I was building the math content for the ed s/w company I was struck that nowhere in the chapter where students learn to simplify fractions involving a polynomial numerator and a polynomial denominator (tough stuff when you are first learning it) nowhere in the textbooks did they tell the student WHY. Why do all this hard work? What is the answer that we seek from all this?" What do you think are the answers to your questions?
  - dhimes 17y ago
    One thing that was quite easy to do is to set the rational expression equal to something and solve for one of the variables. We did a lot of problems where there was only one variable: (x^2+9x+20)/(x^2-25) In motivating them you don't necessarily have to give every reason to learn something, just reason enough to buy into what you are trying to teach them.
    - yequalsx 17y ago
      But the motivation for solving complicated rational equations does not come from word problems. The word problems for this topic involve very simple rational functions. My point has been that the motivation for studying and doing much of mathematics ought not come, solely, from practical word problems.
      - dhimes 17y ago
        I agree with you that you (we) shouldn't feel the need to have a one-to-one mapping between problems we solve and word problems. Even in elementary physics you could argue that the word problems in many cases aren't practical, but we teach it to teach the flavor of the approach; the attitude of how we attack problems (or, less poetically, what exactly we mean when we say "cause and effect"). That said, the motivation is still greater when the students see some hope that what they are learning is meaningful. What that motivation is depends on the level of the class. For algebra 2, it might be "we learn to manipulate rational functions because it gives us a tool to understand (or solve) a certain class of problems. Someday you may own a business where you have to worry about the average cost of something that depends on things that change alot, or variables as we call them. And you know what an average is: it's the amount of something divided by how many there are. Well if your amounts are represented by an algebraic expression, and your total is represented by an algebraic expression, then the quantity you will be interested in will look something like this (writes a rational function on the board). Now, what the fuck do we do with this?"