4 ms·

I think the main issue is that google doesn't accept certain senders anymore. As a generic thread about running a mailserver/mail service pops up here often. T

I think the main issue is that google doesn't accept certain senders anymore. As a generic thread about running a mailserver/mail service pops up here often. That means users are shoveled into about one of 4 "acceptable" providers which have control of the entire market. They demand, full name and usually gender, mobile, alternative email and more. So you get pushed into their information pipeline to stop "spam".

cmdrfred 10y ago
It accepts my personal mail server just fine. You need to support encryption, spf, and dkim but mail will flow no problem to gmail users in my experience.
- rsync 10y ago
  Not mine, FWIW. Ten out of ten score on mail-tester.com, a clean IP that I acquired 15 years ago ... and further, gmail watches people daily remove my one-to-one correspondence from their spam folders. And yet, most (but not all) new gmail recipients will not see my emails until they remove them from their spam folder. Google does not want people to self-provide email and there is no incentive for them to do so.
  - twr 10y ago
    dnsbl.info reports that 69.43.165.11, MX for mail.rsync.net, is blacklisted by ips.backscatterer.org: http://www.backscatterer.org/?ip=69.43.165.11 http://www.backscatterer.org/?ip=69.43.165.11 I suggest fixing your SMTP server configuration [1][2] and maybe listing your IP on dnswl.org. (edit: I see you did the latter.) [1]: http://www.backscatterer.org/index.php?target=bounces http://www.backscatterer.org/index.php?target=bounces [2]: https://web.archive.org/web/20140215064312/http://spamlinks.net/prevent-secure-backscatter.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20140215064312/http://spamlinks....
    - rsync 10y ago
      That's the rsync.net mailserver and that's interesting, thank you. However I was speaking of my own, personal mailserver, which is not listed. Also - do we really think "big email" (like google) are using either of these (blacklist or whitelist) services ?
      - cmdrfred 10y ago
        I can't tell you what goes on behind the scenes at Google, but I have resolved email issues to gmail by getting removed from blacklists.
djsumdog 10y ago
Yep, I wrote one not too long ago: http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-email-unreliable/ http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-... I've been meaning to write a follow up after I met some MailChip devs at a conference. They told me at MailChip they have to slowly spin up new servers, sending e-mail through them slowly so Google registers their new SMTP IPs. The other thing they told me: MailChip owns a /A, and can therefore separately out their servers from even being remotely related to any spammy subnets (common problem on 'cloud' hosting). I'm wondering if I heard/remember that correctly. I mean, a class A is huge and would be crazy expensive. I've been looking through websites on ASNs and am trying to figure out how to verify that info.
- drv 10y ago
  (Assuming you mean MailChimp) I don't know anything about how MailChimp operates, but a quick search turns up this blog post about how to set up SPF records [1]. From there, you can get a list of which IPs MailChimp authorizes as a sender; following the SPF include directive, you can see they specify two IPv4 ranges, both of which are in class C space, so it seems unlikely that MailChimp has their own class A for SMTP senders. [1]: https://blog.mailchimp.com/senderid-authentication-for-your-mailchimp-campaigns/ https://blog.mailchimp.com/senderid-authentication-for-your-...
- dunham 10y ago
  Yeah, we do something similar, although we send a much smaller amount of email than MailChimp. Our admin runs about 10% of the outgoing mail through our DR site to keep google et al trained to accept emails from those IPs.
x1798DE 10y ago
It certainly could be an issue, but honestly even if it were possible to set up my own mail server, that's even worse for pseudonymity than a google account because ICANN records are public and I'd be the only one using my domains. It would make it much easier for some random person to uniquely identify me, which is a worse threat than Google identifying me by my phone number. This is one of those situations where anonymity loves company. Also, the problem is not limited to e-mail. There are some non-email services from Google. I'd be perfectly happy to sign up for a Google account where you can't send e-mails, or where you can only send e-mails to people who have sent you e-mails.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  > ICANN records are public and I'd be the only one using my domains Several domain registration services and hosting providers offer to mask your whois information by making themselves the point of contact. Some include this as part of your package; Tiger Technologies does this as a free opt-in. Namecheap offers it as a paid add-on via WhoisGuard.

cmdrfred 10y ago

It accepts my personal mail server just fine. You need to support encryption, spf, and dkim but mail will flow no problem to gmail users in my experience.

rsync 10y ago
Not mine, FWIW. Ten out of ten score on mail-tester.com, a clean IP that I acquired 15 years ago ... and further, gmail watches people daily remove my one-to-one correspondence from their spam folders. And yet, most (but not all) new gmail recipients will not see my emails until they remove them from their spam folder. Google does not want people to self-provide email and there is no incentive for them to do so.
- twr 10y ago
  dnsbl.info reports that 69.43.165.11, MX for mail.rsync.net, is blacklisted by ips.backscatterer.org: http://www.backscatterer.org/?ip=69.43.165.11 http://www.backscatterer.org/?ip=69.43.165.11 I suggest fixing your SMTP server configuration [1][2] and maybe listing your IP on dnswl.org. (edit: I see you did the latter.) [1]: http://www.backscatterer.org/index.php?target=bounces http://www.backscatterer.org/index.php?target=bounces [2]: https://web.archive.org/web/20140215064312/http://spamlinks.net/prevent-secure-backscatter.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20140215064312/http://spamlinks....
  - rsync 10y ago
    That's the rsync.net mailserver and that's interesting, thank you. However I was speaking of my own, personal mailserver, which is not listed. Also - do we really think "big email" (like google) are using either of these (blacklist or whitelist) services ?
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      I can't tell you what goes on behind the scenes at Google, but I have resolved email issues to gmail by getting removed from blacklists.

djsumdog 10y ago

Yep, I wrote one not too long ago: http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-email-unreliable/ http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-... I've been meaning to write a follow up after I met some MailChip devs at a conference. They told me at MailChip they have to slowly spin up new servers, sending e-mail through them slowly so Google registers their new SMTP IPs. The other thing they told me: MailChip owns a /A, and can therefore separately out their servers from even being remotely related to any spammy subnets (common problem on 'cloud' hosting). I'm wondering if I heard/remember that correctly. I mean, a class A is huge and would be crazy expensive. I've been looking through websites on ASNs and am trying to figure out how to verify that info.

drv 10y ago
(Assuming you mean MailChimp) I don't know anything about how MailChimp operates, but a quick search turns up this blog post about how to set up SPF records [1]. From there, you can get a list of which IPs MailChimp authorizes as a sender; following the SPF include directive, you can see they specify two IPv4 ranges, both of which are in class C space, so it seems unlikely that MailChimp has their own class A for SMTP senders. [1]: https://blog.mailchimp.com/senderid-authentication-for-your-mailchimp-campaigns/ https://blog.mailchimp.com/senderid-authentication-for-your-...
dunham 10y ago
Yeah, we do something similar, although we send a much smaller amount of email than MailChimp. Our admin runs about 10% of the outgoing mail through our DR site to keep google et al trained to accept emails from those IPs.

x1798DE 10y ago

It certainly could be an issue, but honestly even if it were possible to set up my own mail server, that's even worse for pseudonymity than a google account because ICANN records are public and I'd be the only one using my domains. It would make it much easier for some random person to uniquely identify me, which is a worse threat than Google identifying me by my phone number. This is one of those situations where anonymity loves company. Also, the problem is not limited to e-mail. There are some non-email services from Google. I'd be perfectly happy to sign up for a Google account where you can't send e-mails, or where you can only send e-mails to people who have sent you e-mails.

morganvachon 10y ago
> ICANN records are public and I'd be the only one using my domains Several domain registration services and hosting providers offer to mask your whois information by making themselves the point of contact. Some include this as part of your package; Tiger Technologies does this as a free opt-in. Namecheap offers it as a paid add-on via WhoisGuard.