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I've seen variants of this argument made up and down this thread, and I don't think it holds any water. And I say this as someone that thinks the NSA's mass sur
by mazelife 10y ago
I've seen variants of this argument made up and down this thread, and I don't think it holds any water. And I say this as someone that thinks the NSA's mass surveillance is morally wrong, unconstitutional, and probably ultimately counterproductive.
I'm willing to stipulate there's an avenue for civil disobedience in which leaking of private information is used as a way to apply pressure to actors within the government and private industry who might be sanctioning the NSA's practices. In other words I could see a course of action that includes widespread, comprehensive attempts to hack and leak the emails of FISA court judges, employees and appointees of US intelligence agencies, executives and board members of companies like AOL, Palantir, and Verizon who are known to have enthusiastically participated in this surveillance, and elected officials in the executive or legislative branches of the government who have supported or perpetuated this spying. The idea being that if the people who keep this system of surveillance grinding onwards experience the personal consequence of having their private info leaked to the public, they might reconsider their actions.
I could see a course of action like this and even agree there's some valid arguments for it, but it's also incredibly dangerous, and would require, I dunno, a great deal of judgement and restraint to not cause huge collateral damage to perfectly innocent people, or to end up ruining the lives of people who were only tangential participants in the system. In other words, this strategy is deeply problematic and dangerous at the best of times.
But let's not kid ourselves that that's even what's going on here. You could try to argue that Hillary Clinton, as the likely next president, is a part of this system, and so she should be on the list of people who are targeted for leaking in the course of civil disobedience. But Trump also supports this surveillance, so he should too. But the thing is, we don't have to guess at the motives of Wikileaks here, they are quite clearly making no such civil disobedience claims [1]. And if you look at whose information is being leaked—Clinton campaign staffers, the DNC—and estimate where these particular actors fall on the scale of culpability in the NSAs spying (hint: well down the list), you start to see that trying to ascribe some higher civic purpose to these particular leaks isn't warranted.
[1] https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/press-release https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/press-release
- rfrank 10y agoIt all depends on how you look at the overarching conflict, I suppose. To me, the privacy debate is like a cold war that's been raging for at least a decade, that began turning hot around the time of the collateral murder leaks and definitely after the Snowden leaks. Yes, civil disobedience in this context comes with consequences. It's a fight, people get hurt in fights. Lives have already been ruined by the surveillance state. It's important to keep in mind it's a path of action people feel forced down by the actions of their government. > you start to see that trying to ascribe some higher civic purpose to these particular leaks isn't warranted. You sure about that? https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADKADLADiAEeAExAFbAH_AJwAKXAOWAO2 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADK... Here's a bit of one of my comments from yesterday, "For instance, the stories about Podesta's dealings in Russia [1]. This email [2] includes an attached legal bill regarding formation of Leonidio LLC. Is that not government and business corruption? 1. http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/how-hillarys-campaign-chief-hid-money-from-russia/ http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/how-hillarys-campaign-chief-hid-m... 2. https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/13946 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/13946
- SamBam 10y ago> You sure about that? https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADK.. https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADK.... Ummm.... That's two years after she held any kind of public office. How is it possibly "government corruption" for someone who is not a member of government to agree to meet people in order to solicit funds for their foundation? Bill Gates does this all the time, does he not?