4 ms·

We need to change how people think. The crux of the problem is that SF's voters still think they live in a sleepy town in Kansas when in reality many other citi

by pdx6 10y ago

We need to change how people think. The crux of the problem is that SF's voters still think they live in a sleepy town in Kansas when in reality many other cities look up to it as an example, "What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" I'm not going to pretend to have a solution other than education and community outreach. Get organized. Voting isn't enough -- that's not exactly how this city works under the hood. Researched, practiced, trained, and available citizens need to show up to city meetings and be as loud as possible. How can we do this if we are bootstrapping our startup and working 12 hour days? Who is going to show up while we are at home making dinner for the kids? Something to noodle over.

nostromo 10y ago
"What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" I'd honestly be surprised if this has ever been uttered out loud in America. San Francisco's governance problems are well-known across the country. http://archives.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/the-worst-run-big-city-in-the-us/Content?oid=2175354 http://archives.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/the-worst-run-big-... The bay area economy is the envy of every city worldwide -- but the governance of SF sure isn't.
- pdx6 10y ago
  No argument -- you could post articles all day like this. Things that other cities copy: Our classic street car system. Our bicycle network. Our fire suppression network. Our seawall system. Our water treatment system. How to get startups like San Francisco does! Failings aside, setting an example for other US cities should be San Francisco's goal. We have a lot of smart people here, and have historically (the TV was invented on Green St! SF has a history in avionics, oddly enough too).
  - rosser 10y ago
    We do some things spectacularly right, and I adore the pants off this city, but it doesn't begin to mitigate the levels of auto-craniorectal impaction I see every day, public sector or private.
  - jcoffland 10y ago
    It's utterly amazing how many places claim to be the sight of the invention of the TV. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2958 http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2958
    - pdx6 10y ago
      I was referring to Philo Farnsworth's work in 1927: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo_Farnsworth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo_Farnsworth
  - jahewson 10y ago
    The bicycles were copied from London.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    I've never heard of any city looking to San Francisco for any of these things. What city had built a street car system in recent memory? People look to places like Amsterdam for their bicycle networks. People look to places like New York City for their water treatment systems.
    - sarcher 10y ago
      East Bay Municipal Utility District (EBMUD) is a subject of conversation nationally when looking at organic waste treatment, but I guess that's not technically San Francisco.
    - pdx6 10y ago
      There are a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_Electric_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_Electric_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley SF's sewer system has won awards from the federal government: http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=392 http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=392 I was referring to US bicycle network and cities. SF implemented many bike lane programs, inspired by European cities, that have been replicated in other US cities.
      - rayiner 10y ago
        The first electric streetcar in the U.S. was actually in Richmond, VA. Philly and Chicago built street car networks roughly contemporaneously with San Francisco. E.g SEPTA's current street cars date back to Philly's 19th century network). Between the 1880s and 1930s, it was Chicago's streetcar network that was the largest in the world. As for bike lanes, nobody is looking to San Francisco to see how they implemented Amsterdam's bike lanes.
    - rhino369 10y ago
      DC was dumb enough to build a street car route because yuppies think they are better than bus riders.
  - twelvechairs 10y ago
    Speaking as someone from another country involved in urban planning the key things i have heard SF mentioned for on a modern transport side are: - technological uptake (uber, variety of sharing options eg scooter sharing, new developments proposing to pay ongoing uber rather than provide parking) - using technology to measure and understand transit issues - Your cycleways are also a good example of implemntation in a western country. One thing i particularly like is the categorisation system of cycleway quality. - a little futher back the tearing down of the embarcadero freeway Of course thats not to say there arent issues as well. Central SF seems far more progressive than other areas from a governance perspective. My personal understanding is there is a lot of local politics at play. Here in Sydney Australia the state government has taken a lot of power away from local governments on these issues (with strategic gain but also ignoring real local issues). The uk 'city deals' model is another strategy aimed at the same issues
    - WildUtah 10y ago
      SFPark digital metering and reform of minimum parking requirements are big advances for San Francisco that are well known.
- asveikau 10y ago
  >> "What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" > I'd honestly be surprised if this has ever been uttered out loud in America. I've witnessed one such instance: when I lived in Seattle (since moved to SF 5 years ago) I heard people there draw parallels between the Alaskan Way Viaduct and the Embarcadero Freeway, speaking favorably about what happened when the latter was torn down.
jakelarkin 10y ago
On the topic of city meetings, there has to be a way to change this dynamic. Working people are just never going to be well represented at an weekday afternoon meeting and we end up with biased policy. There has to be another way that politicians can get feedback about the needs of their constituents, and earn votes for good work.
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  Being governed by those who can and will go to a weekday afternoon meeting to speak their mind doesn't feel that far from being ruled by YouTube commenters.
- pdx6 10y ago
  In general, there are community meetings that happen on weekends and after work hours. City staff show up to these after their workday. These events, in general, are weak politically to voice opinions. Showing up to daytime meetings is very effective, but would probably require some sort of community organization to find people who can take the time off.
meddlepal 10y ago
LOL. Nobody is saying "What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" It's cute how much of a little bubble SF folks live in and how much Kool-aid that has been guzzled.
- losteric 10y ago
  Actually, lots of people ask "What is San Francisco doing?"... but more and more, it's with the intent of avoiding SF mistakes.
  - umeshunni 10y ago
    Yes, indeed: http://blog.buildllc.com/2015/10/what-seattle-can-learn-from-san-francisco-an-interview-with-architect-jim-zack/ http://blog.buildllc.com/2015/10/what-seattle-can-learn-from... "Often criticized for having an overly involved building department with constricting permitting procedures, San Francisco is like looking into the crystal ball of Seattle’s future if measures aren’t taken." http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/the-real-roots-of-portlands-housing-crisis/482988/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/the-real... “Will the city change for the worse, that’s the tension,” she said. “Everybody is wondering: Are we going to create another San Francisco?”
    - equalarrow 10y ago
      Hah, these are great, thanks for posting. I agree with the OP and have also seen it over the years. I had and ex that got her urban planning degree from Columbia and worked for NYC planning dept. I learned alot from her degree via osmosis. There is an overarching theme here though that doesn't just permeate things like transportation, but frankly, many aspects of city residence: ivory tower power grabs. The political system here is broken in my mind and like the op said, controlled by these little groups of, really, anti-progress people. Look no further than transportation and education. Not to change the subject, but we're going through the 'school lottery' now for our first child and it's fucking ridiculous. We're touring 15 schools and have talked to people that have said "you need at least 30 so they know you're serious..."! We live 3 blocks from one of the best schools in the city and probably won't get in. Hacks that people richer than us are doing? Move across town to increase your chances of getting into the school 3 blocks from us! I first moved to SF in the 90's from southern california and it was amazing. Mostly because I came to a 'real' city. But, many things have not changed much. Homeless is worse than ever, I never knew how shitty the school situation was, transportation still sub-par, police brutality about the same but more documented. I've also lived in NYC and Chicago, traveled all over the world and have seen how real big cities work. I've never seen a subway in Japan, the UK, Paris, Berlin, even India, that is like ours. Bart passengers deal with a lot of transient people in the cars directly, while muni has that plus some of the stations are so awful that you get close to puking because of the filth. Powell muni exit at 4th is fucked up. Honestly, I have no idea what will fix any of this. Every mayor since I moved here has had a homeless program and it hasn't done much. I think rent control has backfired, permitting process and nimbyism are still a joke, edu system is ridiculous, etc. It seems like there are these 'educated' people that love experimenting with ideas that have no basis in reality. I never used to really get why families would leave. "Who would leave the city?!" But, once you get trapped in any of these things, it's a grind. And nobody cares much. There are a lot of great things about the city and I have a lot of history here, but it's only been in the last few years that I seriously thought about leaving. I have a good friend that's lived in the east bay for over a decade now (they bought their house when it was _only_ $700k). We would get into heated discussions about suburbia vs. the city and I'd always defend the virtues of the city. My spiky ideals have been ground down to nubs and now it's just like, get me past the everyday garbage to work and back home. So now I ask myself, do I really want to raise a family in a place where high minded idealism rules over common sense and reality? Or do we flee like countless others?

by pdx6 10y ago

nostromo 10y ago

"What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" I'd honestly be surprised if this has ever been uttered out loud in America. San Francisco's governance problems are well-known across the country. http://archives.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/the-worst-run-big-city-in-the-us/Content?oid=2175354 http://archives.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/the-worst-run-big-... The bay area economy is the envy of every city worldwide -- but the governance of SF sure isn't.

pdx6 10y ago
No argument -- you could post articles all day like this. Things that other cities copy: Our classic street car system. Our bicycle network. Our fire suppression network. Our seawall system. Our water treatment system. How to get startups like San Francisco does! Failings aside, setting an example for other US cities should be San Francisco's goal. We have a lot of smart people here, and have historically (the TV was invented on Green St! SF has a history in avionics, oddly enough too).
- rosser 10y ago
  We do some things spectacularly right, and I adore the pants off this city, but it doesn't begin to mitigate the levels of auto-craniorectal impaction I see every day, public sector or private.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  It's utterly amazing how many places claim to be the sight of the invention of the TV. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2958 http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2958
  - pdx6 10y ago
    I was referring to Philo Farnsworth's work in 1927: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo_Farnsworth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo_Farnsworth
- jahewson 10y ago
  The bicycles were copied from London.
- rayiner 10y ago
  I've never heard of any city looking to San Francisco for any of these things. What city had built a street car system in recent memory? People look to places like Amsterdam for their bicycle networks. People look to places like New York City for their water treatment systems.
  - sarcher 10y ago
    East Bay Municipal Utility District (EBMUD) is a subject of conversation nationally when looking at organic waste treatment, but I guess that's not technically San Francisco.
  - pdx6 10y ago
    There are a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_Electric_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_Electric_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley SF's sewer system has won awards from the federal government: http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=392 http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=392 I was referring to US bicycle network and cities. SF implemented many bike lane programs, inspired by European cities, that have been replicated in other US cities.
    - rayiner 10y ago
      The first electric streetcar in the U.S. was actually in Richmond, VA. Philly and Chicago built street car networks roughly contemporaneously with San Francisco. E.g SEPTA's current street cars date back to Philly's 19th century network). Between the 1880s and 1930s, it was Chicago's streetcar network that was the largest in the world. As for bike lanes, nobody is looking to San Francisco to see how they implemented Amsterdam's bike lanes.
  - rhino369 10y ago
    DC was dumb enough to build a street car route because yuppies think they are better than bus riders.
- twelvechairs 10y ago
  Speaking as someone from another country involved in urban planning the key things i have heard SF mentioned for on a modern transport side are: - technological uptake (uber, variety of sharing options eg scooter sharing, new developments proposing to pay ongoing uber rather than provide parking) - using technology to measure and understand transit issues - Your cycleways are also a good example of implemntation in a western country. One thing i particularly like is the categorisation system of cycleway quality. - a little futher back the tearing down of the embarcadero freeway Of course thats not to say there arent issues as well. Central SF seems far more progressive than other areas from a governance perspective. My personal understanding is there is a lot of local politics at play. Here in Sydney Australia the state government has taken a lot of power away from local governments on these issues (with strategic gain but also ignoring real local issues). The uk 'city deals' model is another strategy aimed at the same issues
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    SFPark digital metering and reform of minimum parking requirements are big advances for San Francisco that are well known.
asveikau 10y ago
>> "What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" > I'd honestly be surprised if this has ever been uttered out loud in America. I've witnessed one such instance: when I lived in Seattle (since moved to SF 5 years ago) I heard people there draw parallels between the Alaskan Way Viaduct and the Embarcadero Freeway, speaking favorably about what happened when the latter was torn down.

jakelarkin 10y ago

On the topic of city meetings, there has to be a way to change this dynamic. Working people are just never going to be well represented at an weekday afternoon meeting and we end up with biased policy. There has to be another way that politicians can get feedback about the needs of their constituents, and earn votes for good work.

BurningFrog 10y ago
Being governed by those who can and will go to a weekday afternoon meeting to speak their mind doesn't feel that far from being ruled by YouTube commenters.
pdx6 10y ago
In general, there are community meetings that happen on weekends and after work hours. City staff show up to these after their workday. These events, in general, are weak politically to voice opinions. Showing up to daytime meetings is very effective, but would probably require some sort of community organization to find people who can take the time off.

meddlepal 10y ago

LOL. Nobody is saying "What is San Francisco doing? Let's copy them!" It's cute how much of a little bubble SF folks live in and how much Kool-aid that has been guzzled.

losteric 10y ago
Actually, lots of people ask "What is San Francisco doing?"... but more and more, it's with the intent of avoiding SF mistakes.
- umeshunni 10y ago
  Yes, indeed: http://blog.buildllc.com/2015/10/what-seattle-can-learn-from-san-francisco-an-interview-with-architect-jim-zack/ http://blog.buildllc.com/2015/10/what-seattle-can-learn-from... "Often criticized for having an overly involved building department with constricting permitting procedures, San Francisco is like looking into the crystal ball of Seattle’s future if measures aren’t taken." http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/the-real-roots-of-portlands-housing-crisis/482988/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/the-real... “Will the city change for the worse, that’s the tension,” she said. “Everybody is wondering: Are we going to create another San Francisco?”
  - equalarrow 10y ago
    Hah, these are great, thanks for posting. I agree with the OP and have also seen it over the years. I had and ex that got her urban planning degree from Columbia and worked for NYC planning dept. I learned alot from her degree via osmosis. There is an overarching theme here though that doesn't just permeate things like transportation, but frankly, many aspects of city residence: ivory tower power grabs. The political system here is broken in my mind and like the op said, controlled by these little groups of, really, anti-progress people. Look no further than transportation and education. Not to change the subject, but we're going through the 'school lottery' now for our first child and it's fucking ridiculous. We're touring 15 schools and have talked to people that have said "you need at least 30 so they know you're serious..."! We live 3 blocks from one of the best schools in the city and probably won't get in. Hacks that people richer than us are doing? Move across town to increase your chances of getting into the school 3 blocks from us! I first moved to SF in the 90's from southern california and it was amazing. Mostly because I came to a 'real' city. But, many things have not changed much. Homeless is worse than ever, I never knew how shitty the school situation was, transportation still sub-par, police brutality about the same but more documented. I've also lived in NYC and Chicago, traveled all over the world and have seen how real big cities work. I've never seen a subway in Japan, the UK, Paris, Berlin, even India, that is like ours. Bart passengers deal with a lot of transient people in the cars directly, while muni has that plus some of the stations are so awful that you get close to puking because of the filth. Powell muni exit at 4th is fucked up. Honestly, I have no idea what will fix any of this. Every mayor since I moved here has had a homeless program and it hasn't done much. I think rent control has backfired, permitting process and nimbyism are still a joke, edu system is ridiculous, etc. It seems like there are these 'educated' people that love experimenting with ideas that have no basis in reality. I never used to really get why families would leave. "Who would leave the city?!" But, once you get trapped in any of these things, it's a grind. And nobody cares much. There are a lot of great things about the city and I have a lot of history here, but it's only been in the last few years that I seriously thought about leaving. I have a good friend that's lived in the east bay for over a decade now (they bought their house when it was _only_ $700k). We would get into heated discussions about suburbia vs. the city and I'd always defend the virtues of the city. My spiky ideals have been ground down to nubs and now it's just like, get me past the everyday garbage to work and back home. So now I ask myself, do I really want to raise a family in a place where high minded idealism rules over common sense and reality? Or do we flee like countless others?