4 ms·

You need to do more than make them free — they also need to be obtainable at times other than weekdays 9 to 5, when people are working. And they need to be obt

You need to do more than make them free — they also need to be obtainable at times other than weekdays 9 to 5, when people are working. And they need to be obtainable without a car. Basically, it's been found that there are (presumably unintentional) roadblocks toward some underprivileged people getting IDs, and until those are sorted out, they are unsuitable for use as you describe.

Alupis 10y ago
Every citizen has a federally issued identification number, aka your social security number. We could have a list at each voting center. You show up, tell them your SSN (or better yet, produce a card showing it - and yes, I know we'd need to do better than flimsy paper like the current cards are printed on), they cross it off the list and you go vote. Your ID can't be re-used - and your name doesn't matter. 1 ID, 1 Vote... sort of thing.
- crooked-v 10y ago
  So what happens if you go to vote and they tell you "no, somebody already used your SSN, too bad"?
  - Alupis 10y ago
    So you propose we allow you to vote again - now knowing full well someone else committed vote fraud in some attempt to taint the election?
    - crooked-v 10y ago
      "Again"? In this theoretical scenario, I never voted in the first place. Why should I be responsible for what someone else did?
      - Alupis 10y ago
        Are you implying we should accept known fraudulent votes and count them towards results?
        crooked-v 10y ago
        In this theoretical scenario, my vote is the legitimate one, and your rule would accept the known fraudulent vote instead of mine just because that one was cast first.
    - SaberTail 10y ago
      Social security numbers can and have been issued to multiple people[1]. And some people have been issued multiple social security numbers[2] (which would allow them to vote more than once). Social security numbers are not a good unique identifier. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/3004654/government/a-tale-of-two-women-same-birthday-same-social-security-number-same-big-data-mess.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3004654/government/a-tale-of-... [2] http://oig.ssa.gov/audits-and-investigations/audit-reports/A-02-14-34054 http://oig.ssa.gov/audits-and-investigations/audit-reports/A...
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  SSNs aren't guaranteed unique. They are not an effective ID, even though many groups try to treat them as such.
  - Alupis 10y ago
    > SSNs aren't guaranteed unique They're supposed to be, however sometimes they aren't. That's a bureaucratic and easily solvable issue, however.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Nope, SSNs aren't mandatory. Many people don't have one, use the wrong one, have two or have some other issue. Voting is a right. Every person lives somewhere. You register in advance. The person sees a list of people, one of which is "Spooky23, 123 Spooky St, Spookytown, CA" I walk up to the table and say "Hi, I'm Spooky23". I sign the paper, am assigned a number, get a ballot, and vote. You're name and address cannot be used again.
  - Alupis 10y ago
    > Nope, SSNs aren't mandatory That's not correct. Every citizen is assigned one at birth. You cannot choose to not have one, and it's not optional to pay into the system. I agree, however, some people have issues with theirs, but that doesn't preclude a voting ID system from being effective. > I walk up to the table and say "Hi, I'm Spooky23 The problem is with people who do not vote, and someone else uses their vote illegitimately. Showing a government issued ID of some sort solves that issue for the most part.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      At-birth SSN issuance is a relatively recent innovation, and there are living people born before that time. Paying into SS is not mandatory in the sense that it is perfectly legal to accept employment from one of the many (mostly public agency, but IIRC there are also some narrow exceptions in private industry) employers who are not mandated to, and have not chosen to, pay into SS.
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      You apply for a social security card at birth. You're not compelled to. (See: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10023.pdf https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10023.pdf ) Most people do, because you cannot claim a dependent for tax purposes without an SSN. But we're a nation of >300M people. There are many exceptions.

Alupis 10y ago

Every citizen has a federally issued identification number, aka your social security number. We could have a list at each voting center. You show up, tell them your SSN (or better yet, produce a card showing it - and yes, I know we'd need to do better than flimsy paper like the current cards are printed on), they cross it off the list and you go vote. Your ID can't be re-used - and your name doesn't matter. 1 ID, 1 Vote... sort of thing.

crooked-v 10y ago
So what happens if you go to vote and they tell you "no, somebody already used your SSN, too bad"?
- Alupis 10y ago
  So you propose we allow you to vote again - now knowing full well someone else committed vote fraud in some attempt to taint the election?
  - crooked-v 10y ago
    "Again"? In this theoretical scenario, I never voted in the first place. Why should I be responsible for what someone else did?
    - Alupis 10y ago
      Are you implying we should accept known fraudulent votes and count them towards results?
      - crooked-v 10y ago
        In this theoretical scenario, my vote is the legitimate one, and your rule would accept the known fraudulent vote instead of mine just because that one was cast first.
  - SaberTail 10y ago
    Social security numbers can and have been issued to multiple people[1]. And some people have been issued multiple social security numbers[2] (which would allow them to vote more than once). Social security numbers are not a good unique identifier. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/3004654/government/a-tale-of-two-women-same-birthday-same-social-security-number-same-big-data-mess.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3004654/government/a-tale-of-... [2] http://oig.ssa.gov/audits-and-investigations/audit-reports/A-02-14-34054 http://oig.ssa.gov/audits-and-investigations/audit-reports/A...
Jtsummers 10y ago
SSNs aren't guaranteed unique. They are not an effective ID, even though many groups try to treat them as such.
- Alupis 10y ago
  > SSNs aren't guaranteed unique They're supposed to be, however sometimes they aren't. That's a bureaucratic and easily solvable issue, however.
Spooky23 10y ago
Nope, SSNs aren't mandatory. Many people don't have one, use the wrong one, have two or have some other issue. Voting is a right. Every person lives somewhere. You register in advance. The person sees a list of people, one of which is "Spooky23, 123 Spooky St, Spookytown, CA" I walk up to the table and say "Hi, I'm Spooky23". I sign the paper, am assigned a number, get a ballot, and vote. You're name and address cannot be used again.
- Alupis 10y ago
  > Nope, SSNs aren't mandatory That's not correct. Every citizen is assigned one at birth. You cannot choose to not have one, and it's not optional to pay into the system. I agree, however, some people have issues with theirs, but that doesn't preclude a voting ID system from being effective. > I walk up to the table and say "Hi, I'm Spooky23 The problem is with people who do not vote, and someone else uses their vote illegitimately. Showing a government issued ID of some sort solves that issue for the most part.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    At-birth SSN issuance is a relatively recent innovation, and there are living people born before that time. Paying into SS is not mandatory in the sense that it is perfectly legal to accept employment from one of the many (mostly public agency, but IIRC there are also some narrow exceptions in private industry) employers who are not mandated to, and have not chosen to, pay into SS.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    You apply for a social security card at birth. You're not compelled to. (See: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10023.pdf https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10023.pdf ) Most people do, because you cannot claim a dependent for tax purposes without an SSN. But we're a nation of >300M people. There are many exceptions.