5 ms·

So what do these cars do when the hit a puddle of mud and it covers all the cameras. Will there be a new form of vandalism where someone puts scotch tape over/d

by S_A_P 10y ago

So what do these cars do when the hit a puddle of mud and it covers all the cameras. Will there be a new form of vandalism where someone puts scotch tape over/destroys the vehicles cameras and now your fancy autonomous vehicle is rendered incapacitated. Maybe this seems unlikely or ridiculous, but the dependence on cameras at points on the car that seem likely to get dirty and or damaged seems to be a risk to me.

Cyph0n 10y ago
I'm assuming the system is monitored by external circuitry, so a camera being covered should be easy to pick up. On top that, they're probably ensuring consensus of the outputs of all overlapping cameras. This is definitely done on start, and probably even during operation.
esquevin 10y ago
What'd you do if you drove over mud and it covered your windshield ?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- brianwawok 10y ago
  This I would guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDEqkAWbPE&t=40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDEqkAWbPE&t=40
  - S_A_P 10y ago
    Upvoted! Im not sure the battery pack would allow General Lee style antics, so I guess a model S cant be used for a Dukes of Hazzard Redux...
- S_A_P 10y ago
  turn on the windshield wipers. Last I checked there were no water jets, wipers or other cleaning devices for the camera lenses on any Tesla. Again, maybe it seems like a small thing, but its still something you would have to worry about. Imagine driving down a dirt road and your autonomous car becomes disabled until you get out and clean the cameras.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    I'm guessing there aren't a lot of people driving their $80,000 car down a dirt road.
  - Jiig 10y ago
    Maybe this would be a problem sometime in the future when autonomous cars don't have manual controls anymore, but if the cameras were disabled for some reason you can just take control and drive off the dirt road your self, and head to a car wash. I don't see this really being a problem that has to be worried about.
  - maherbeg 10y ago
    I don't see why this is an issue for the near future. If that happens, the car stops, you either clean the window or continue in manual mode. Where this breaks down is 15 years down the line when the newest set of drivers doesn't know how to actually drive....
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
Or whats the maintenance schedule for these things? Suddenly we have tons of complexity to worry about. How will this affect the used market where repairs are usually DIY? Is the used market for autonomous cars pretty much dead because 3rd party mechanics will have no idea how to service these things? I imagine so. What does that do to resale value? I've read about how hard it is to sell an aging Prius because the battery pack has to be replaced. Its apparently not easy to do and the part is very expensive. For used car buyers you're better off buying a gas civic if you want an efficient older car. ICE doesn't age like electric.
- neogodless 10y ago
  This has been a "potential problem" lobbied against advances in car technology since... the beginning of car technology. Obviously you need different (and many could argue "more difficult to learn") skills compared to mechanical repair. But that's always been the direction car repair has headed, from the beginning. Ideally, there's a fair amount of (reliable) self-diagnosis. If you merely have to replace a camera that starts to malfunction, it might not be any more difficult than replacing a starter or an alternator (depending on construction.)
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    Its a little different now that you're just not replacing static parts. Sure you can replace a complex fuel controller and such in a modern car which means plugging a box into some wires, but what about something that is net enabled, requires some subscription (or active warranty) and is constantly being updated and monitored by Tesla HQ? Where do you get a new central computer for an old Tesla? How to you get it back onto HQ? Will you be allowed to? Its a bit like building a PC vs having a smartphone, which is mostly run by the OS supplier and carrier. The former is doable but the latter is way too locked down for the DIY crowd. The phone-ifcation of all things is concerning from many perspectives.
grecy 10y ago
The sensors are heated to help remove ice/snow, and there is a warning to the driver if the sensors get obscured and need to be cleaned.
hipshaker 10y ago
Yeah and so what?! Good on you for being risk averse. Bad for all of us if you were in charge. Risk will always be a factor when trying to push the envelope and bring new tech to life. It's easy to put down most ideas on the basis of some risk - cars, rockets, medicine... You have to build something and then you will discover how to improve on that eventually.
usaphp 10y ago
Car tells you that and you drive your car yourself until you clean it or remove the tape?
throwawaymsft 10y ago
You mean when a puddle of mud simultaneously covers the cameras (front, rear, side facing), radar, and ultrasonics? I guess the vehicle would slow down and pull over (the driver can always take over you know). Will the new form of vandalism be any different than letting the air out of someone's tires, also rendering it incapacitated?
Shivetya 10y ago
its not ridiculous, it points out the flaws that must be addressed. there were cases where people posted losing the ability of their car's system not working because of a leaf. throw in the fact that nice day autonomous driving isn't proof of much. Pretty much any manufacturer have systems that do this the difference is they don't try to infer something with it and Tesla clearly is, they are still trying to deflect negative attention. When Tesla shows me the same car driving in pouring rain, day or night, in snow, or such, then I will say "damn, they are truly making it work". Until then its a cheap magic trick and dishonest. What is so odd is bragging about driving when people are least likely to need it, nice wonderful days. Safety systems have been aimed at providing control and reaction in the worst environments.
tdb7893 10y ago
Tires are likely to be damaged and are crucial (and can be vandalized) and cars run okay. The camera going out probably won't be much worse than all the times my tires went flat or that time when my tire blew out while I was going 75 down the highway.

by S_A_P 10y ago

Cyph0n 10y ago

I'm assuming the system is monitored by external circuitry, so a camera being covered should be easy to pick up. On top that, they're probably ensuring consensus of the outputs of all overlapping cameras. This is definitely done on start, and probably even during operation.

esquevin 10y ago

What'd you do if you drove over mud and it covered your windshield ?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
brianwawok 10y ago
This I would guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDEqkAWbPE&t=40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDEqkAWbPE&t=40
- S_A_P 10y ago
  Upvoted! Im not sure the battery pack would allow General Lee style antics, so I guess a model S cant be used for a Dukes of Hazzard Redux...
S_A_P 10y ago
turn on the windshield wipers. Last I checked there were no water jets, wipers or other cleaning devices for the camera lenses on any Tesla. Again, maybe it seems like a small thing, but its still something you would have to worry about. Imagine driving down a dirt road and your autonomous car becomes disabled until you get out and clean the cameras.
- freehunter 10y ago
  I'm guessing there aren't a lot of people driving their $80,000 car down a dirt road.
- Jiig 10y ago
  Maybe this would be a problem sometime in the future when autonomous cars don't have manual controls anymore, but if the cameras were disabled for some reason you can just take control and drive off the dirt road your self, and head to a car wash. I don't see this really being a problem that has to be worried about.
- maherbeg 10y ago
  I don't see why this is an issue for the near future. If that happens, the car stops, you either clean the window or continue in manual mode. Where this breaks down is 15 years down the line when the newest set of drivers doesn't know how to actually drive....

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

Or whats the maintenance schedule for these things? Suddenly we have tons of complexity to worry about. How will this affect the used market where repairs are usually DIY? Is the used market for autonomous cars pretty much dead because 3rd party mechanics will have no idea how to service these things? I imagine so. What does that do to resale value? I've read about how hard it is to sell an aging Prius because the battery pack has to be replaced. Its apparently not easy to do and the part is very expensive. For used car buyers you're better off buying a gas civic if you want an efficient older car. ICE doesn't age like electric.

neogodless 10y ago
This has been a "potential problem" lobbied against advances in car technology since... the beginning of car technology. Obviously you need different (and many could argue "more difficult to learn") skills compared to mechanical repair. But that's always been the direction car repair has headed, from the beginning. Ideally, there's a fair amount of (reliable) self-diagnosis. If you merely have to replace a camera that starts to malfunction, it might not be any more difficult than replacing a starter or an alternator (depending on construction.)
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  Its a little different now that you're just not replacing static parts. Sure you can replace a complex fuel controller and such in a modern car which means plugging a box into some wires, but what about something that is net enabled, requires some subscription (or active warranty) and is constantly being updated and monitored by Tesla HQ? Where do you get a new central computer for an old Tesla? How to you get it back onto HQ? Will you be allowed to? Its a bit like building a PC vs having a smartphone, which is mostly run by the OS supplier and carrier. The former is doable but the latter is way too locked down for the DIY crowd. The phone-ifcation of all things is concerning from many perspectives.

grecy 10y ago

The sensors are heated to help remove ice/snow, and there is a warning to the driver if the sensors get obscured and need to be cleaned.

hipshaker 10y ago

Yeah and so what?! Good on you for being risk averse. Bad for all of us if you were in charge. Risk will always be a factor when trying to push the envelope and bring new tech to life. It's easy to put down most ideas on the basis of some risk - cars, rockets, medicine... You have to build something and then you will discover how to improve on that eventually.

usaphp 10y ago

Car tells you that and you drive your car yourself until you clean it or remove the tape?

throwawaymsft 10y ago

You mean when a puddle of mud simultaneously covers the cameras (front, rear, side facing), radar, and ultrasonics? I guess the vehicle would slow down and pull over (the driver can always take over you know). Will the new form of vandalism be any different than letting the air out of someone's tires, also rendering it incapacitated?

Shivetya 10y ago

its not ridiculous, it points out the flaws that must be addressed. there were cases where people posted losing the ability of their car's system not working because of a leaf. throw in the fact that nice day autonomous driving isn't proof of much. Pretty much any manufacturer have systems that do this the difference is they don't try to infer something with it and Tesla clearly is, they are still trying to deflect negative attention. When Tesla shows me the same car driving in pouring rain, day or night, in snow, or such, then I will say "damn, they are truly making it work". Until then its a cheap magic trick and dishonest. What is so odd is bragging about driving when people are least likely to need it, nice wonderful days. Safety systems have been aimed at providing control and reaction in the worst environments.

tdb7893 10y ago

Tires are likely to be damaged and are crucial (and can be vandalized) and cars run okay. The camera going out probably won't be much worse than all the times my tires went flat or that time when my tire blew out while I was going 75 down the highway.