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"But to anyone who sees civic and political participation as the most important way to advance democracy, and to beat back any capture by special interests, thi

"But to anyone who sees civic and political participation as the most important way to advance democracy, and to beat back any capture by special interests, this is not medicine. It is poison." Nonsense. The mass hacks have shone much-needed light into formerly dark places. It's a bit late to think civic and political participation has a chance against sentiment like this: "And as I've mentioned, we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry", from https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3599 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3599

mazelife 10y ago
I don't believe the passage you quote from supports your assertion in any way. Here it is in full: "I'm certain the poll-directed insiders are sure things will default to policy as soon as the conventions are over, but I think not. And as I've mentioned, we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly. This problem demands some serious, serious thinking - and not just poll driven, demographically-inspired messaging." To unpack that (along with context from the rest of the email), Podesta's correspondent is bemoaning the fact that politics has begun to be covered as entertainment and celebrity gossip. He suggests that any hope that things will take a turn for the better after the election is misplaced, and that there's a larger issue: "we"—and by this he clearly means media elites, people in public office, and in general the milieu to which he belongs rather than some shadowy cabal of which he is a member—have not upheld their duty to help keep an informed and skeptical citizenry. He suggests that misguided attempts by the media to keep people compliant and docile have started to wear thin, but that in the absence of information and understanding all that anger is liable to attach itself to a demagogue like Donald Trump. In short, he is advocating the exact thing mentioned in the article: informed civic and political participation! This is a perfectly anodyne line of thinking, and I don't really see what cause is served by stealing and leaking this person's private correspondence. And who is this dark and Machiavellian correspondent? This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey
- camperman 10y ago
  "To unpack that, Podesta's correspondent is bemoaning the fact that politics has begun to be covered as entertainment and celebrity gossip." I thought he was saying they've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and conspire to produce a compliant and unaware citizenry. That's what he says. "He suggests that any hope that things will take a turn for the better after the election is misplaced, and that there's a larger issue: "we"—and by this he clearly means media elites, people in public office, and in general the milieu to which he belongs rather than some shadowy cabal of which he is a member—have not upheld their duty to help keep an informed and skeptical citizenry." Except he says 'we've all been quite content to ... conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry', exactly the opposite meaning. "He suggests that misguided attempts by the media to keep people compliant and docile have started to wear thin but that in the absence of information and understanding all that anger is liable to attach itself to a demagogue like Donald Trump." Indeed. "In short, he is advocating the exact thing mentioned in the article: informed civic and political participation!" War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. "And who is this dark and Machiavellian correspondent? This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey" So, a close confidant of the Clintons (Bill made him Chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts) and with strong connections to the current Dems (team leader in Arts and Humanities for the Obama transition).
  - dsp1234 10y ago
    War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Ignoring Context is Enlightenment.
  - burkaman 10y ago
    Let me compare this sentence with a similar example. When Obama says something like "we've been blind to the unique mayhem that gun violence inflicts on this nation", does that mean he's advocating being blind? Is he explaining why he supports more mayhem? Is he literally talking about himself, or is this a different use of the word "we"? Is it possible that sometimes people exaggerate a position of the establishment that they are themselves a part of, in order to make a point and push for a change?
pandalicious 10y ago
Did you even read that email? It's from an academic in the Arts and Humanities world and the whole email is basically just a guy waxing philosophic to Podesta about the current election. In context, there is NOTHING revelatory about that email. It's just private correspondence. That email is the perfect example of wikileaks publishing material irresponsibly. There is nothing in there that is in the public interest, nothing to justify the violation of the privacy of Podesta or the sender.
- camperman 10y ago
  "It's from an academic in the Arts and Humanities world and the whole email is basically just a guy waxing philosophic" Not just 'a guy' - a highly intelligent, extremely well-connected confidant of the Clintons who used to serve in President Clinton's administration and who has warned before of the dangers of this approach. "That email is the perfect example of wikileaks publishing material irresponsibly. There is nothing in there that is in the public interest, nothing to justify the violation of the privacy of Podesta or the sender." Preach it, unaware and compliant citizen, preach it.
maxerickson 10y ago
He's being cynical there, rejecting the contentment, not endorsing it.
gavinpc 10y ago
Please update your post to indicate that the quote is taken from a message to Podesta. The URL is misleading as you have it.
- camperman 10y ago
  I don't make Wikileaks URLs - they do. If someone can't be bothered to click a link and see what the context of a quote is, then I'm not going to spoonfeed them.

mazelife 10y ago

I don't believe the passage you quote from supports your assertion in any way. Here it is in full: "I'm certain the poll-directed insiders are sure things will default to policy as soon as the conventions are over, but I think not. And as I've mentioned, we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly. This problem demands some serious, serious thinking - and not just poll driven, demographically-inspired messaging." To unpack that (along with context from the rest of the email), Podesta's correspondent is bemoaning the fact that politics has begun to be covered as entertainment and celebrity gossip. He suggests that any hope that things will take a turn for the better after the election is misplaced, and that there's a larger issue: "we"—and by this he clearly means media elites, people in public office, and in general the milieu to which he belongs rather than some shadowy cabal of which he is a member—have not upheld their duty to help keep an informed and skeptical citizenry. He suggests that misguided attempts by the media to keep people compliant and docile have started to wear thin, but that in the absence of information and understanding all that anger is liable to attach itself to a demagogue like Donald Trump. In short, he is advocating the exact thing mentioned in the article: informed civic and political participation! This is a perfectly anodyne line of thinking, and I don't really see what cause is served by stealing and leaking this person's private correspondence. And who is this dark and Machiavellian correspondent? This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey

camperman 10y ago
"To unpack that, Podesta's correspondent is bemoaning the fact that politics has begun to be covered as entertainment and celebrity gossip." I thought he was saying they've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and conspire to produce a compliant and unaware citizenry. That's what he says. "He suggests that any hope that things will take a turn for the better after the election is misplaced, and that there's a larger issue: "we"—and by this he clearly means media elites, people in public office, and in general the milieu to which he belongs rather than some shadowy cabal of which he is a member—have not upheld their duty to help keep an informed and skeptical citizenry." Except he says 'we've all been quite content to ... conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry', exactly the opposite meaning. "He suggests that misguided attempts by the media to keep people compliant and docile have started to wear thin but that in the absence of information and understanding all that anger is liable to attach itself to a demagogue like Donald Trump." Indeed. "In short, he is advocating the exact thing mentioned in the article: informed civic and political participation!" War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. "And who is this dark and Machiavellian correspondent? This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ivey" So, a close confidant of the Clintons (Bill made him Chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts) and with strong connections to the current Dems (team leader in Arts and Humanities for the Obama transition).
- dsp1234 10y ago
  War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Ignoring Context is Enlightenment.
- burkaman 10y ago
  Let me compare this sentence with a similar example. When Obama says something like "we've been blind to the unique mayhem that gun violence inflicts on this nation", does that mean he's advocating being blind? Is he explaining why he supports more mayhem? Is he literally talking about himself, or is this a different use of the word "we"? Is it possible that sometimes people exaggerate a position of the establishment that they are themselves a part of, in order to make a point and push for a change?

pandalicious 10y ago

Did you even read that email? It's from an academic in the Arts and Humanities world and the whole email is basically just a guy waxing philosophic to Podesta about the current election. In context, there is NOTHING revelatory about that email. It's just private correspondence. That email is the perfect example of wikileaks publishing material irresponsibly. There is nothing in there that is in the public interest, nothing to justify the violation of the privacy of Podesta or the sender.

camperman 10y ago
"It's from an academic in the Arts and Humanities world and the whole email is basically just a guy waxing philosophic" Not just 'a guy' - a highly intelligent, extremely well-connected confidant of the Clintons who used to serve in President Clinton's administration and who has warned before of the dangers of this approach. "That email is the perfect example of wikileaks publishing material irresponsibly. There is nothing in there that is in the public interest, nothing to justify the violation of the privacy of Podesta or the sender." Preach it, unaware and compliant citizen, preach it.

maxerickson 10y ago

He's being cynical there, rejecting the contentment, not endorsing it.

gavinpc 10y ago

Please update your post to indicate that the quote is taken from a message to Podesta. The URL is misleading as you have it.

camperman 10y ago
I don't make Wikileaks URLs - they do. If someone can't be bothered to click a link and see what the context of a quote is, then I'm not going to spoonfeed them.