7 ms·

The first day he messaged her, we told her it was a scam to take window's money. Four months later, when we discovered she had been talking to him in the interv

The first day he messaged her, we told her it was a scam to take window's money. Four months later, when we discovered she had been talking to him in the intervening months, we showed her a few websites that detail exactly how the romance scam works (matching her situation exactly). Last weekend, when we found out all of her money was gone, we had the police and adult protective services come out and tell her point blank that she was being scammed. She listens, agrees, and then sends him more money.

whiddershins 10y ago
There's an interesting concept I read about, how members of doomsday cults tend to believe MORE strongly after the doomsday date passes and everything is shown to be false. It's something about cognitive dissonance. I wonder if there is a known way to convince someone who is in this state. Cult debunkers and such might have thoughts?
- kba 10y ago
  William Miller predicted Jesus' return in the year 1843. When that didn't happen, he adjusted his calculations to mean March 21, 1844. When that failed, it became October 22, 1844. He kept modifying his prediction whenever it failed. You'd think being constantly proven wrong would make people stop believing him. That's how the Seventh-day Adventist Church was started. A church that today has more than 18 million members. You can't reason people out of something they didn't reason themselves into.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    This is also how the JW's started, and frankly continue. The simple, sad reality is: People mostly believe what they want to believe.
    - hilop 10y ago
      Once the snowball starts rolling, the later generations don't care much for the ridiculousness founding myths. It just becomes a traditional culture. Same for all religions, and heck, even nations
    - pavel_lishin 10y ago
      You could argue the same thing about Christianity in general; didn't Jesus prophesize his return to occur within a very short time after his death?
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        Who knows. It's hard to tell at a 2000 year remove, when it's known that various scriptures have been heavily edited, redacted, etc. Mostly it seems like he was an early version of "Reform" Judaism that turned into a cult.
        ejanus 10y ago
        Any supporting materials to what you just said?
        M_Grey 10y ago
        http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2011/03/changes_to_the_bible_through_the_ages_are_being_studied_by_new_orleans_scholars.html http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2011/03/changes_to_th... http://www.npr.org/2011/07/17/138281522/how-bible-stories-evolved-over-the-centuries http://www.npr.org/2011/07/17/138281522/how-bible-stories-ev... https://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/the-embarrassing-truth-about-the-bible-its-still-being-edited/ https://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/the-embarr... Beyond that, it's the entire history of the document, with the first 400 or so years being particularly amusing. To be clear, it's not like the same isn't true for other scriptures. You know that lovely story about Moses' birth? Just a ripoff of Sargon of Akkad's origin story, which was almost certainly not original.
      - dragandj 10y ago
        Whoever wrote the texts in the New Testament was clever enough to specify it vaguely. Short, for god, can be very long for you, mere mortal. Of course, there slipped an error in some of those texts where Jesus promised that this "short" means "within the lifetime" of those who he was speaking to. But, again, the Bible is so full of much more blatant inconsistencies that this got drowned down below. The believers don't mind, though...
  - rayvd 10y ago
    SDA here -- that's partially true, but at some point he did realize there was no actual prediction in scripture about a specific date for the second coming. The church has made no such claims since the 19th century.
gotofritz 10y ago
Are you a geek? Is there no way you can start impersonating him and telling her you've been lying to her etc
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  Or get her to start sending money to a different account, one registered in her name. Aside from the fact that you're impersonating someone, what would the legal ramifications be of "stealing" from someone only to deposit the money in an account they nominally control, but aren't aware of?
  - mgkimsal 10y ago
    the cynical side of me thinks some regional prosecutor would love to make a name for himself my throwing the book at you for doing such a thing...
- astrodust 10y ago
  Maybe DDOS the scammer somehow.
hilop 10y ago
She's paying for companionship. It's basically prostitution. If you don't approve, find someone to give her more comfort than her courtesan does.
- berntb 10y ago
  I assume that was written by a secondary account from someone here. It seems to be a common way around the HN demands for civility... :-( Regarding the victim, my guess would be on early stages of dementia and/or emotional trauma after becoming a widow. But if I would discuss this with a victim, I would try bringing up the psychology of a scammer. First in general terms, like the Nigeria letters, then the specifics about romance. To really hurt someone this bad is not far from the level physical torture. It is not easy for normal people to live with the self image of destroying an innocent person's life in that way. So the perpetrators of such horrible acts have to despise and blame the victim. (This is what scare me about hateful political idealists, by the way, they tend to think people contradicting them are evil. Not an American, so this was not about the election.) So scammers and criminals really hate and despise the victim. (This scammer wasn't someone desperate or really poor, that is partly another discussion.) Which gets me back to the what I comment on -- "hilop" could probably get a career in scamming, he has the right attitude to other people.
  - Sacho 10y ago
    The post seemed pretty civil to me, just straight to the point. Everyone else is trying to solve the problem by banging a hammer into the nail more - maybe THIS way will help you show her it's a scam. In my opinion, it's worth considering that she is aware(at least on some level) that this is a scam, and she just doesn't care, because she's too traumatized, because she longs for companionship, or whatever else reason. It's impossible to know without having a deep insight into michael_h's life, but it's worth considering.
  - Pica_soO 10y ago
    Interesting point on the psychology of "bad" people. Could this logic relation be inverted? If you see humans as evil, you are more likely to be a criminal or evil-doer? Thus Pessimism is the first stage of psychopathy? I weep for the species. Also weeping for science.
jayess 10y ago
Good lord, just log in to her facebook and block the dude... better yet, change her email address for the account and then the password so she can't reset her password.
- michael_h 10y ago
  Done, done, and done. That was the first thing we did. Facebook was only the initial mode of communication - now they communicate by text, which I can't control.
  - stevenh 10y ago
    Assuming her phone is configured to cloak the number in favor of the name, maybe you could grab her phone when she's asleep and swap the phone number for the scammer's contact with the number of your brand new burner phone from which you will impersonate the scammer from now on. You could also record a video on your own phone as you swipe down through the scammer's texts as a crude way to archive them to study later so you get the impersonation right.

whiddershins 10y ago

There's an interesting concept I read about, how members of doomsday cults tend to believe MORE strongly after the doomsday date passes and everything is shown to be false. It's something about cognitive dissonance. I wonder if there is a known way to convince someone who is in this state. Cult debunkers and such might have thoughts?

kba 10y ago
William Miller predicted Jesus' return in the year 1843. When that didn't happen, he adjusted his calculations to mean March 21, 1844. When that failed, it became October 22, 1844. He kept modifying his prediction whenever it failed. You'd think being constantly proven wrong would make people stop believing him. That's how the Seventh-day Adventist Church was started. A church that today has more than 18 million members. You can't reason people out of something they didn't reason themselves into.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  This is also how the JW's started, and frankly continue. The simple, sad reality is: People mostly believe what they want to believe.
  - hilop 10y ago
    Once the snowball starts rolling, the later generations don't care much for the ridiculousness founding myths. It just becomes a traditional culture. Same for all religions, and heck, even nations
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    You could argue the same thing about Christianity in general; didn't Jesus prophesize his return to occur within a very short time after his death?
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      Who knows. It's hard to tell at a 2000 year remove, when it's known that various scriptures have been heavily edited, redacted, etc. Mostly it seems like he was an early version of "Reform" Judaism that turned into a cult.
      - ejanus 10y ago
        Any supporting materials to what you just said?
        M_Grey 10y ago
        http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2011/03/changes_to_the_bible_through_the_ages_are_being_studied_by_new_orleans_scholars.html http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2011/03/changes_to_th... http://www.npr.org/2011/07/17/138281522/how-bible-stories-evolved-over-the-centuries http://www.npr.org/2011/07/17/138281522/how-bible-stories-ev... https://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/the-embarrassing-truth-about-the-bible-its-still-being-edited/ https://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/the-embarr... Beyond that, it's the entire history of the document, with the first 400 or so years being particularly amusing. To be clear, it's not like the same isn't true for other scriptures. You know that lovely story about Moses' birth? Just a ripoff of Sargon of Akkad's origin story, which was almost certainly not original.
    - dragandj 10y ago
      Whoever wrote the texts in the New Testament was clever enough to specify it vaguely. Short, for god, can be very long for you, mere mortal. Of course, there slipped an error in some of those texts where Jesus promised that this "short" means "within the lifetime" of those who he was speaking to. But, again, the Bible is so full of much more blatant inconsistencies that this got drowned down below. The believers don't mind, though...
- rayvd 10y ago
  SDA here -- that's partially true, but at some point he did realize there was no actual prediction in scripture about a specific date for the second coming. The church has made no such claims since the 19th century.

gotofritz 10y ago

Are you a geek? Is there no way you can start impersonating him and telling her you've been lying to her etc

pavel_lishin 10y ago
Or get her to start sending money to a different account, one registered in her name. Aside from the fact that you're impersonating someone, what would the legal ramifications be of "stealing" from someone only to deposit the money in an account they nominally control, but aren't aware of?
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  the cynical side of me thinks some regional prosecutor would love to make a name for himself my throwing the book at you for doing such a thing...
astrodust 10y ago
Maybe DDOS the scammer somehow.

hilop 10y ago

She's paying for companionship. It's basically prostitution. If you don't approve, find someone to give her more comfort than her courtesan does.

berntb 10y ago
I assume that was written by a secondary account from someone here. It seems to be a common way around the HN demands for civility... :-( Regarding the victim, my guess would be on early stages of dementia and/or emotional trauma after becoming a widow. But if I would discuss this with a victim, I would try bringing up the psychology of a scammer. First in general terms, like the Nigeria letters, then the specifics about romance. To really hurt someone this bad is not far from the level physical torture. It is not easy for normal people to live with the self image of destroying an innocent person's life in that way. So the perpetrators of such horrible acts have to despise and blame the victim. (This is what scare me about hateful political idealists, by the way, they tend to think people contradicting them are evil. Not an American, so this was not about the election.) So scammers and criminals really hate and despise the victim. (This scammer wasn't someone desperate or really poor, that is partly another discussion.) Which gets me back to the what I comment on -- "hilop" could probably get a career in scamming, he has the right attitude to other people.
- Sacho 10y ago
  The post seemed pretty civil to me, just straight to the point. Everyone else is trying to solve the problem by banging a hammer into the nail more - maybe THIS way will help you show her it's a scam. In my opinion, it's worth considering that she is aware(at least on some level) that this is a scam, and she just doesn't care, because she's too traumatized, because she longs for companionship, or whatever else reason. It's impossible to know without having a deep insight into michael_h's life, but it's worth considering.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Interesting point on the psychology of "bad" people. Could this logic relation be inverted? If you see humans as evil, you are more likely to be a criminal or evil-doer? Thus Pessimism is the first stage of psychopathy? I weep for the species. Also weeping for science.

jayess 10y ago

Good lord, just log in to her facebook and block the dude... better yet, change her email address for the account and then the password so she can't reset her password.

michael_h 10y ago
Done, done, and done. That was the first thing we did. Facebook was only the initial mode of communication - now they communicate by text, which I can't control.
- stevenh 10y ago
  Assuming her phone is configured to cloak the number in favor of the name, maybe you could grab her phone when she's asleep and swap the phone number for the scammer's contact with the number of your brand new burner phone from which you will impersonate the scammer from now on. You could also record a video on your own phone as you swipe down through the scammer's texts as a crude way to archive them to study later so you get the impersonation right.