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It's not enforceable, so why demand it Tesla? Nothing more annoying than a company that starts to overstep boundaries.. Stay out of my personal decisions.

by aantix 10y ago

jellicle 10y ago
Why would you think it's not enforceable? Indeed, the more restrictions Tesla adds, the more enforceable it is: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-m...
- pluma 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure the EULA wouldn't be enforceable in the EU, though. The vast majority of EULAs currently in existence are unenforceable in the EU except for the most basic restrictions that would probably be obvious even without a EULA.
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    The legal situation right now does not matter. Who pays the lobbyists? This is a long-term plan not just of Tesla, but a corporate dream. No more danger of losing customers, when you have "the one ring" to bind them... It won't sound evil. They will just tell the politicians that in order to invest huge sums of money they need guarantees, that the uncertainty of not binding their customers hinders job creation and investment, etc. Nothing is new in that playbook, since from their point of view it's actually not even wrong. It's not like they have to come up with some outrageous lies. Today it's Tesla, but that process has been going on for a long time. It's just too good: Control over a stable income stream instead of the ups and downs of the free market. It also appeals to people working in those firms, so again not actually clearly "evil". It also appeals to a lot of people in our allegedly "uncertain and dangerous times" that there is ever more "order" and control. They actually have a point: The more complex out systems become, which includes the state, the more dangerous failure and the harder a recovery. Are our systems becoming more unstable? If so the trend explains itself, because that calls for more certainty and control - since changing the system itself seems to be no option because nobody knows how and what to change it to, or at least there is no trace of a consensus. So, more order and control it is.
- JackFr 10y ago
  Because if Tesla is legitimately able to use the force of law to prevent me from using the car in a a way I see fit, Tesla owns the car not me, and they have not sold me a car, they have sold me a perpetual license. (Which your linked article makes clear.)
  - mountaineer22 10y ago
    Fraud?
awqrre 10y ago
Could they buy data from Lyft/Uber/etc and cross-check it with their cars' paths?
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Yeah, but I can Uber/Taxi with a Tesla. My bet is that this is more because of legal reasons than business model reasons (though of course Tesla wants a piece of that pie)
notatoad 10y ago
it's probably unenforceable if one person is using their autonomous car for ridesharing, but i doubt that's what tesla cares about. If Uber decided to buy a fleet of autonomous Teslas and use them to operate an autonomous taxi service, instead of building their own autonomous car, Tesla could get that shut down pretty easily with these terms. And i'm guessing that's what they're targeting.
- pault 10y ago
  Why? If Uber buys a car, why should the manufacturer get to dictate what they do with it? I don't see how it's any different than the consumer use case.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    The manufacturer provides a guarantee. That guarantee is based on expected uses. If the buyer uses the product well outside the expected use should they be covered by the same guarantee?
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      You can't disclaim warranties for no reason, or for normal use. Unless they show that Uber is routing the cars over speedbumps at high speed or something, there's no reason to think that there'll be excessive wear beyond the simple distance covered. They can walk-back their unlimited mileage warranty, if they want. But not selectively for arbitrary usages.
- f137 10y ago
  So do you really suggest that tesla's going to refuse an order of 100000 cars by Uber?

It's not enforceable, so why demand it Tesla? Nothing more annoying than a company that starts to overstep boundaries.. Stay out of my personal decisions.

by aantix 10y ago

It's not enforceable, so why demand it Tesla? Nothing more annoying than a company that starts to overstep boundaries.. Stay out of my personal decisions.

jellicle 10y ago

Why would you think it's not enforceable? Indeed, the more restrictions Tesla adds, the more enforceable it is: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-m...

pluma 10y ago
I'm pretty sure the EULA wouldn't be enforceable in the EU, though. The vast majority of EULAs currently in existence are unenforceable in the EU except for the most basic restrictions that would probably be obvious even without a EULA.
- Noseshine 10y ago
  The legal situation right now does not matter. Who pays the lobbyists? This is a long-term plan not just of Tesla, but a corporate dream. No more danger of losing customers, when you have "the one ring" to bind them... It won't sound evil. They will just tell the politicians that in order to invest huge sums of money they need guarantees, that the uncertainty of not binding their customers hinders job creation and investment, etc. Nothing is new in that playbook, since from their point of view it's actually not even wrong. It's not like they have to come up with some outrageous lies. Today it's Tesla, but that process has been going on for a long time. It's just too good: Control over a stable income stream instead of the ups and downs of the free market. It also appeals to people working in those firms, so again not actually clearly "evil". It also appeals to a lot of people in our allegedly "uncertain and dangerous times" that there is ever more "order" and control. They actually have a point: The more complex out systems become, which includes the state, the more dangerous failure and the harder a recovery. Are our systems becoming more unstable? If so the trend explains itself, because that calls for more certainty and control - since changing the system itself seems to be no option because nobody knows how and what to change it to, or at least there is no trace of a consensus. So, more order and control it is.
JackFr 10y ago
Because if Tesla is legitimately able to use the force of law to prevent me from using the car in a a way I see fit, Tesla owns the car not me, and they have not sold me a car, they have sold me a perpetual license. (Which your linked article makes clear.)
- mountaineer22 10y ago
  Fraud?

awqrre 10y ago

Could they buy data from Lyft/Uber/etc and cross-check it with their cars' paths?

raverbashing 10y ago
Yeah, but I can Uber/Taxi with a Tesla. My bet is that this is more because of legal reasons than business model reasons (though of course Tesla wants a piece of that pie)

notatoad 10y ago

it's probably unenforceable if one person is using their autonomous car for ridesharing, but i doubt that's what tesla cares about. If Uber decided to buy a fleet of autonomous Teslas and use them to operate an autonomous taxi service, instead of building their own autonomous car, Tesla could get that shut down pretty easily with these terms. And i'm guessing that's what they're targeting.

pault 10y ago
Why? If Uber buys a car, why should the manufacturer get to dictate what they do with it? I don't see how it's any different than the consumer use case.
- DanBC 10y ago
  The manufacturer provides a guarantee. That guarantee is based on expected uses. If the buyer uses the product well outside the expected use should they be covered by the same guarantee?
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    You can't disclaim warranties for no reason, or for normal use. Unless they show that Uber is routing the cars over speedbumps at high speed or something, there's no reason to think that there'll be excessive wear beyond the simple distance covered. They can walk-back their unlimited mileage warranty, if they want. But not selectively for arbitrary usages.
f137 10y ago
So do you really suggest that tesla's going to refuse an order of 100000 cars by Uber?