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Wow. Key statement here: " but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year." Tesl

Wow. Key statement here: " but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year." Tesla Network? Uber/Lyft competitor? Plus I sure hope this won't hold up in court. I do not want a company telling me how to use my product that I paid for.

ythl 10y ago
You're not "buying" a Tesla anymore just like you aren't "buying" an iPhone anymore. Thus it is not "yours", and you can't do anything you want with it.
- adventurer 10y ago
  It's starting to get out of hand. I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. They have all your driving habits and likely share it with however they want. You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.
  - i__believe 10y ago
    I've received these as well, but it's always been "Hey, it's been 6 months since your last oil change with us -- come on in!" I could very easily see if you go to the same mechanic and they input your mileage between visits and a system having a reasonable chance of getting scheduled maintenance correct based upon time or average mileage. I've never heard of a company pulling data from a car OTA to do this type of work. (some car insurance companies are a different story though)
    - adventurer 10y ago
      I'm receiving the communication about 2-3 months ahead of that schedule due to the excess mileage I'm driving. At about 6k miles, my tire sensor was going on and off for a few days, then I received an email specifically to come in to check the tire pressure. It may have be coincidence, but it's highly unlikely at this point.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      Many high-end cars have embedded cellular connections, in 2015 Miller and Valasek managed to crack into Jeep's, jump the airgap and take control of the car over the OTA reporting connection: https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/ https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig... No idea if that's the case with Toyota, but it's definitely possible with some high-end cars (most definitely including Teslas which routinely report to the mothership) (incidentally it's fun seeing people drool over teslas then freak out at Firefox or MS telemetry)
      - EdHominem 10y ago
        Amusingly, the air-gap was a firewall on a chip. No air whatsoever. They got around it a few ways, including most effectively, by re-flashing it to just be a passthrough. Based on that, I'd say anyone who is injured because of this in any way has a great claim against the company for lying about the equipment they provided.
  - forgetsusername 10y ago
    >I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. I bet if you were willing to waive the warranty they'd stop calling you. But, being as how the warranty on cars is now 5+ years, and that the maintenance variance among owners is high, I don't see this as a bad thing. Granted, it's not happening to me (yet), so I might complain too.
  - mtgx 10y ago
    > You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening. Yet the media will probably spin this as "people just don't care," as they usually do with privacy issues. It's very much an awareness and education issue.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    > I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. No, it doesn't, at least not necessarily. I also bought a Toyota last year. They called on a regular timed schedule that had nothing to do with my actual usage pattern. We got a call to come in for our 5,000 mile service when we'd just completed the 10,000 mile service. It may be a feature of the higher-end models, but it's definitely not something the 2015/2016 Corollas seem to do.
  - nunez 10y ago
    I'd rather have that and know when I need to bring my car in for service than go without and accidentally go thousands of miles beyond the service date
errnoh 10y ago
This was already on Musk's Master Plan Pt2 [0], listed under "Sharing". Though it's true that the name of the service and release schedule was not known before. [0] https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux
- vermontdevil 10y ago
  Interesting. Wonder if I have the option to opt out of the "Network" and join Uber or a future entity?
lanna 10y ago
> I do not want a company telling me how to use my product that I paid for. I'm not defending Tesla here, I just want to draw an analogy. You can't go a store, buy a DVD for $15 and then charge tickets to project to an audience. You need a different, more expensive license for that. The same applies to music and software, even if it is embedded firmware in a car.
- ddalex 10y ago
  > You can't go a store, buy a DVD for $15 and then charge tickets to project to an audience. Maybe this model is actually bad because it circumvents the first sale doctrine, and we need to make this kind of restriction one illegal (haha, in my dreams).
  - lanna 10y ago
    I'm not defending the model, I'm just saying how it is now.
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      A few court vaugely related court-cases don't make a widespread and reliable principle. If there was such a doctrine it would depend on the presentation of the product, the importance of the software to the product, and the viability of the product if separated into parts. Further, such a doctrine would allow you to buy the Tesla and remove the software they didn't want to license to you. So no, that isn't how it is - that's how they want you to think it works so you don't even bother trying. Go ask a lawyer for a clear-cut answer on anything.
- svens_ 10y ago
  In the same vein, Tesla offers unlimited free supercharging for its vehicles. This is a generous offer, that only works under the assumption that people use it responsibly. It would be quite unfair if someone ran his commercial fleet with it. Of course this is easy to fix, but it would still result in either forbidding commercial use (without license) or metered supercharging.

ythl 10y ago

You're not "buying" a Tesla anymore just like you aren't "buying" an iPhone anymore. Thus it is not "yours", and you can't do anything you want with it.

adventurer 10y ago
It's starting to get out of hand. I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. They have all your driving habits and likely share it with however they want. You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.
- i__believe 10y ago
  I've received these as well, but it's always been "Hey, it's been 6 months since your last oil change with us -- come on in!" I could very easily see if you go to the same mechanic and they input your mileage between visits and a system having a reasonable chance of getting scheduled maintenance correct based upon time or average mileage. I've never heard of a company pulling data from a car OTA to do this type of work. (some car insurance companies are a different story though)
  - adventurer 10y ago
    I'm receiving the communication about 2-3 months ahead of that schedule due to the excess mileage I'm driving. At about 6k miles, my tire sensor was going on and off for a few days, then I received an email specifically to come in to check the tire pressure. It may have be coincidence, but it's highly unlikely at this point.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    Many high-end cars have embedded cellular connections, in 2015 Miller and Valasek managed to crack into Jeep's, jump the airgap and take control of the car over the OTA reporting connection: https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/ https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig... No idea if that's the case with Toyota, but it's definitely possible with some high-end cars (most definitely including Teslas which routinely report to the mothership) (incidentally it's fun seeing people drool over teslas then freak out at Firefox or MS telemetry)
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      Amusingly, the air-gap was a firewall on a chip. No air whatsoever. They got around it a few ways, including most effectively, by re-flashing it to just be a passthrough. Based on that, I'd say anyone who is injured because of this in any way has a great claim against the company for lying about the equipment they provided.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. I bet if you were willing to waive the warranty they'd stop calling you. But, being as how the warranty on cars is now 5+ years, and that the maintenance variance among owners is high, I don't see this as a bad thing. Granted, it's not happening to me (yet), so I might complain too.
- mtgx 10y ago
  > You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening. Yet the media will probably spin this as "people just don't care," as they usually do with privacy issues. It's very much an awareness and education issue.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  > I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. No, it doesn't, at least not necessarily. I also bought a Toyota last year. They called on a regular timed schedule that had nothing to do with my actual usage pattern. We got a call to come in for our 5,000 mile service when we'd just completed the 10,000 mile service. It may be a feature of the higher-end models, but it's definitely not something the 2015/2016 Corollas seem to do.
- nunez 10y ago
  I'd rather have that and know when I need to bring my car in for service than go without and accidentally go thousands of miles beyond the service date

errnoh 10y ago

This was already on Musk's Master Plan Pt2 [0], listed under "Sharing". Though it's true that the name of the service and release schedule was not known before. [0] https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux

vermontdevil 10y ago
Interesting. Wonder if I have the option to opt out of the "Network" and join Uber or a future entity?

lanna 10y ago

> I do not want a company telling me how to use my product that I paid for. I'm not defending Tesla here, I just want to draw an analogy. You can't go a store, buy a DVD for $15 and then charge tickets to project to an audience. You need a different, more expensive license for that. The same applies to music and software, even if it is embedded firmware in a car.

ddalex 10y ago
> You can't go a store, buy a DVD for $15 and then charge tickets to project to an audience. Maybe this model is actually bad because it circumvents the first sale doctrine, and we need to make this kind of restriction one illegal (haha, in my dreams).
- lanna 10y ago
  I'm not defending the model, I'm just saying how it is now.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    A few court vaugely related court-cases don't make a widespread and reliable principle. If there was such a doctrine it would depend on the presentation of the product, the importance of the software to the product, and the viability of the product if separated into parts. Further, such a doctrine would allow you to buy the Tesla and remove the software they didn't want to license to you. So no, that isn't how it is - that's how they want you to think it works so you don't even bother trying. Go ask a lawyer for a clear-cut answer on anything.
svens_ 10y ago
In the same vein, Tesla offers unlimited free supercharging for its vehicles. This is a generous offer, that only works under the assumption that people use it responsibly. It would be quite unfair if someone ran his commercial fleet with it. Of course this is easy to fix, but it would still result in either forbidding commercial use (without license) or metered supercharging.