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> I would prefer those would be kept separate issues Wouldn't we all! But unfortunately that's not how the real world works. I think you dismissed my point tho

> I would prefer those would be kept separate issues Wouldn't we all! But unfortunately that's not how the real world works. I think you dismissed my point though... For example, when someone says "build a wall," it's easy just to say "you're racist and hate mexicans." But if you actually let that idea play out, you'll see it's not really about disliking mexicans, it's a response to drug problems in the US, security issues, and an economy that has failed millions (while still succeeding on the whole). I don't doubt there are some pure racist chanting "build a wall" as well, but they are in the minority (no pun intended) and if you actually fix the above concerns a lot less people would be shouting "build a wall". But my point is, you have to let that "racist" idea be heard to understand the problem before you dismiss it as an "ignorant solution." Again, I believe racism is more often the symptom, than the problem itself.

beefield 10y ago
> But my point is, you have to let that "racist" idea be heard to understand the problem before you dismiss it as an "ignorant solution." But that is more or less precisely what Popper says: "I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise." Rational argument (in my opinion) here is _exactly_ what you say, racism is typically the symptom, and not the problem, and the problem needs to be solved. But that does not imply that we should somehow applaud racism and bigotry as free speech. And we need to say to the people who claim that racism and bigotry is the solution to the problem that they are wrong and their racism and bigotry is unacceptable. If we want to live in a tolerant society, that is.

beefield 10y ago

> But my point is, you have to let that "racist" idea be heard to understand the problem before you dismiss it as an "ignorant solution." But that is more or less precisely what Popper says: "I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise." Rational argument (in my opinion) here is _exactly_ what you say, racism is typically the symptom, and not the problem, and the problem needs to be solved. But that does not imply that we should somehow applaud racism and bigotry as free speech. And we need to say to the people who claim that racism and bigotry is the solution to the problem that they are wrong and their racism and bigotry is unacceptable. If we want to live in a tolerant society, that is.