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The author has a decent opening point about how we Free Software Enthusiasts need to be aware of the world in which regular people are computing, otherwise we'l

by endgame 10y ago

The author has a decent opening point about how we Free Software Enthusiasts need to be aware of the world in which regular people are computing, otherwise we'll never be able to reach them. If my understanding of history is correct, the GNU utilities were better than the proprietary UNIX ones: they had sensible defaults, or better features, or DWIMmmy behaviour (`find` instead of `find .`, anyone?). GNU basically pulled an embrace, extend, extinguish on proprietary UNIX tools. If Free Software "fights for the users", then it needs to go to where the users are, and that's the web. It needs to be better in a tangible way, and show how the freedoms it provides can help the users. Avoiding DRM and other user-hostile behaviour is a start, but beyond that I don't know what it should look like with today's web stacks, but I do believe that's the sort of thing we have to deliver.

pjmlp 10y ago
Actually it was all about the money. As long as developer tools were available for free (as beer) on UNIX, no one cared about GNU. GCC was largely ignored until the day SUN decided to split Solaris developer tools into a commercial SDK, and other UNIX vendors followed along.
aethertron 10y ago
>If Free Software "fights for the users", then it needs to go to where the users are, and that's the web. To what extent? Just because a mass of users are somewhere, doesn't make that environment the right place for free software. But I'm not saying it's a wrong place. But it's not the only possible place. A popular environment might be by its nature unsuitable for free software, and free software developers would be mistaken to compromise their development by wholeheartedly embedding themselves on that platform. What concerns me about the web: - the trend has been a move toward centralisation, content silos - DRM in the spec now (EME) - bloated by necessity (as browsers need backward-compatibility) - it's hacky, as a document-retrieval system retrofitted into an application platform - people think it's beyond criticism, probably because of the notion that it's The One Open alternative to iOS/Android ... (cf. https://www.christianheilmann.com/2016/10/05/can-we-stop-bad-mouthing-css-in-developer-talks-please/ https://www.christianheilmann.com/2016/10/05/can-we-stop-bad...) Despite all that, I still like the Web and want it to continue existing. And if I want a better system, I need to put my money where my mouth is and work on helping something else become a real practical alternative...
- endgame 10y ago
  Nothing you said is wrong, and I don't really like what the modern web has become. But I can't see how you'd build a better platform, then build something that drives adoption of that platform while there's so much dev attention on the web. Maybe it's possible, and maybe I just lack vision.
  - aethertron 10y ago
    Consider that, to do a new thing, we don't need a cohesive platform that replaces the whole of the web. We can leverage the web, e.g. use it to distribute native applications, or scripts that run on some new interpreter. I like the look of the Red language. The goal there is to make a more modern, open source version of Rebol, which has aspects that tried to directly compete with the web some years ago. I suspect the successful modern version of a Red-based open, distributed app network and hypertext document system will have more of a symbiotic relationship with the existing web.

by endgame 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

Actually it was all about the money. As long as developer tools were available for free (as beer) on UNIX, no one cared about GNU. GCC was largely ignored until the day SUN decided to split Solaris developer tools into a commercial SDK, and other UNIX vendors followed along.

aethertron 10y ago

>If Free Software "fights for the users", then it needs to go to where the users are, and that's the web. To what extent? Just because a mass of users are somewhere, doesn't make that environment the right place for free software. But I'm not saying it's a wrong place. But it's not the only possible place. A popular environment might be by its nature unsuitable for free software, and free software developers would be mistaken to compromise their development by wholeheartedly embedding themselves on that platform. What concerns me about the web: - the trend has been a move toward centralisation, content silos - DRM in the spec now (EME) - bloated by necessity (as browsers need backward-compatibility) - it's hacky, as a document-retrieval system retrofitted into an application platform - people think it's beyond criticism, probably because of the notion that it's The One Open alternative to iOS/Android ... (cf. https://www.christianheilmann.com/2016/10/05/can-we-stop-bad-mouthing-css-in-developer-talks-please/ https://www.christianheilmann.com/2016/10/05/can-we-stop-bad...) Despite all that, I still like the Web and want it to continue existing. And if I want a better system, I need to put my money where my mouth is and work on helping something else become a real practical alternative...

endgame 10y ago
Nothing you said is wrong, and I don't really like what the modern web has become. But I can't see how you'd build a better platform, then build something that drives adoption of that platform while there's so much dev attention on the web. Maybe it's possible, and maybe I just lack vision.
- aethertron 10y ago
  Consider that, to do a new thing, we don't need a cohesive platform that replaces the whole of the web. We can leverage the web, e.g. use it to distribute native applications, or scripts that run on some new interpreter. I like the look of the Red language. The goal there is to make a more modern, open source version of Rebol, which has aspects that tried to directly compete with the web some years ago. I suspect the successful modern version of a Red-based open, distributed app network and hypertext document system will have more of a symbiotic relationship with the existing web.