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>>Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator. Your argument fails as the analogy of car drivers with a

by tmptmp 10y ago

>>Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator. Your argument fails as the analogy of car drivers with airplane pilots fails on various grounds. a. The airplanes, which provides autopilot facility, their pilots have to undergo more rigorous and stringent training than what a ordinary car driver has to undergo b. for different types of airplane autopilot systems the pilots have to undergo different types of trainings (you have not mentioned what kind of autopilot you have used, but I'd doubt if your autopilot training on one type of plane will automatically certify you to drive all kinds of auto-pilot planes out there, even within the same airplane category) c. what Tesla is doing is on one hand it is saying (in fact, screaming in its adverts) that "we are bringing autopilot in cars", "we are bringing autopilot in cars" but when it actually is bringing just a driver assistance system and when that causes accidents, Tesla is putting blame on the customers for not understanding what is autopilot. This is not fair, as Tesla does NOT put any requirement for more rigorous and stringent training for its drivers the way airplane manufacturers/airliners put. So, Tesla is playing with the lives of not only its drivers but also of the other road users. You are welcome to counter-argue my points. But this too much hoohaa about auto-pilot by Tesla and the subsequent bad publicity it is going to bring them is not good for them. People will not be subtle then because Tesla is not being subtle in their adverts now. edit : typo

prostoalex 10y ago
There are no specific requirements on avionics training. As long as you have been endorsed for a specific class and type of aircraft, you can fly one, even if the aircraft used for checkout had a different type of autopilot (or none at all). Things obviously converge with more complex aircrafts, as it would be quite difficult to find, let's say, two Airbus A320 with drastically different stacks, but some of them, like Cessna 172 Skyhawk, have been in production since 1956, with aircraft technology making quite a progress in those 60 years. If all your training has been done on a 1956 Cessna 172, is it wise to operate a 2016 model without sufficient training? No. Legal? Yes. > Tesla does NOT put any requirement for more rigorous and stringent training for its drivers Beyond saying "Don't take tour hands off the wheel and be prepared to take over any moment" what kind of training would you envision them offering outside of [insert state name] Driver's Handbook? Most states already offer free defensive driving courses as well.
benliong78 10y ago
I agree that Tesla is using the term "autopilot" opportunistically to say the least. Whether the term accurately represents the feature they want to promote (imho technically it does, but more on that later) is becoming less relevant. But I'd like to bring counter-argument to your points (a) and (b): taking away the autopilot feature from both airplanes and cars, an airplane pilot still has to undergo substantially more training than a car driver does, so imho the increased training for pilots compared to vehicle drivers is largely coming from the difficulty in controlling the machine and the more deadly consequence of control-loss to the driver / pilot and to the others. That being said, the term autopilot is being used opportunistically. There's no way Tesla will back away from the term now, so the next best thing is to warn the user, in every step of the way, that "YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD IDIOT", to the point that if they can detect your hands not on the wheel a warning sounds. I do believe the Tesla Autopilot and the autonomous mode in the future will save lives, what we're experiencing is the growing pain till we get there.
- tmptmp 10y ago
  >>(a) and (b): taking away the autopilot feature from both airplanes and cars, an airplane pilot still has to undergo substantially more training than a car driver does, so imho the increased training for pilots compared to vehicle drivers is largely coming from the difficulty in controlling the machine and the more deadly consequence of control-loss to the driver / pilot and to the others. But part of the training that a pilot of an "airplane with autopilot" has to undergo has to do with understanding what the autopilot can and cannot do and what the pilot has to do. Tesla is not making this mandatory for their drivers to undergo rigorous training regarding this very feature that they taut so much. Then as you have pointed out they are opportunistically advertising that very feature and then when the unsuspecting user is caught off-guard, the Tesla is shouting "Gotcha, you didn't read the fine print. See, it is clearly mentioned here". If then the customer says that but that thing was mentioned amongst thousand other things and that too in font so small, Tesla will counter him/her "see, that's your problem not ours." If that's what they want then be it so. If that's what is making them happy then be it so. It may help Tesla win some law-suit. But they will clearly and surely lose big on the customer trust. >>"YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD IDIOT" Btw, It's not fair to say the user an "idiot" when the larger idiocy (and not just idiocy but a cruel practical joke on the customers bordering on criminal activity as it may be at the cost of customer's life) is committed by Tesla manufacturers. Sad, I was a fan of Tesla but no more.

by tmptmp 10y ago

prostoalex 10y ago

There are no specific requirements on avionics training. As long as you have been endorsed for a specific class and type of aircraft, you can fly one, even if the aircraft used for checkout had a different type of autopilot (or none at all). Things obviously converge with more complex aircrafts, as it would be quite difficult to find, let's say, two Airbus A320 with drastically different stacks, but some of them, like Cessna 172 Skyhawk, have been in production since 1956, with aircraft technology making quite a progress in those 60 years. If all your training has been done on a 1956 Cessna 172, is it wise to operate a 2016 model without sufficient training? No. Legal? Yes. > Tesla does NOT put any requirement for more rigorous and stringent training for its drivers Beyond saying "Don't take tour hands off the wheel and be prepared to take over any moment" what kind of training would you envision them offering outside of [insert state name] Driver's Handbook? Most states already offer free defensive driving courses as well.

benliong78 10y ago

I agree that Tesla is using the term "autopilot" opportunistically to say the least. Whether the term accurately represents the feature they want to promote (imho technically it does, but more on that later) is becoming less relevant. But I'd like to bring counter-argument to your points (a) and (b): taking away the autopilot feature from both airplanes and cars, an airplane pilot still has to undergo substantially more training than a car driver does, so imho the increased training for pilots compared to vehicle drivers is largely coming from the difficulty in controlling the machine and the more deadly consequence of control-loss to the driver / pilot and to the others. That being said, the term autopilot is being used opportunistically. There's no way Tesla will back away from the term now, so the next best thing is to warn the user, in every step of the way, that "YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD IDIOT", to the point that if they can detect your hands not on the wheel a warning sounds. I do believe the Tesla Autopilot and the autonomous mode in the future will save lives, what we're experiencing is the growing pain till we get there.

tmptmp 10y ago
>>(a) and (b): taking away the autopilot feature from both airplanes and cars, an airplane pilot still has to undergo substantially more training than a car driver does, so imho the increased training for pilots compared to vehicle drivers is largely coming from the difficulty in controlling the machine and the more deadly consequence of control-loss to the driver / pilot and to the others. But part of the training that a pilot of an "airplane with autopilot" has to undergo has to do with understanding what the autopilot can and cannot do and what the pilot has to do. Tesla is not making this mandatory for their drivers to undergo rigorous training regarding this very feature that they taut so much. Then as you have pointed out they are opportunistically advertising that very feature and then when the unsuspecting user is caught off-guard, the Tesla is shouting "Gotcha, you didn't read the fine print. See, it is clearly mentioned here". If then the customer says that but that thing was mentioned amongst thousand other things and that too in font so small, Tesla will counter him/her "see, that's your problem not ours." If that's what they want then be it so. If that's what is making them happy then be it so. It may help Tesla win some law-suit. But they will clearly and surely lose big on the customer trust. >>"YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD IDIOT" Btw, It's not fair to say the user an "idiot" when the larger idiocy (and not just idiocy but a cruel practical joke on the customers bordering on criminal activity as it may be at the cost of customer's life) is committed by Tesla manufacturers. Sad, I was a fan of Tesla but no more.