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> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standar

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a precedent for this as a marketing approach in modern consumer products.

whicks 10y ago
Tesla is known for doing things without precedent. They also have the ability to push major updates OTA to their vehicles, which is what enables them to give "less" while promising more. Like the release said, they'll have the hardware, it just needs to be enabled.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  This isn't that uncommon in the automotive industry tbh. Features including performance related features have been pushed via software updates for years. Anything from navigation to cruise control to sport packages have been deployed either OTA or via a manual update. Tesla is just pushing it to a new limit (not necessarily a good thing) and is actually advertising every change and feature update.
  - victorhooi 10y ago
    Interesting. Can you give any examples of other feature improvements in cars that have been pushed via OTA?
andr 10y ago
I wonder how much it would cost to add hardware for both Autopilot v1.0 and v2.0 for the gap models, so new customers don't have to make the sacrifice. Lack of complete Autopilot for a while is fine, but lack of emergency braking increases your life risk.
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  There is no price point when hardware manufacturer (mobileye) refuses to sell to you
Trufa 10y ago
I wonder how much it has to do with the autopilot death: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tragic-loss https://www.tesla.com/blog/tragic-loss
dogma1138 10y ago
>I can't think of a precedent for this as a marketing approach in modern consumer products. Apple iOS ;) the iPhone 7 had (don't know if it has now) some camera features (autofocus and raw related) disabled that were present on the 6/6s because of software limitations. This isn't that uncommon many times you can have a new product which comes with some features disabled/not working because the software did not catch up to the hardware yet for what ever reason.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  Can you provide a source? I've followed the iPhone 7 pretty closely, own one, and haven't heard of any of these missing camera features that were present on the 6S (just the headphone jack).
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Yes for example the autofocus for portrait mode for the 7 Plus was introduced with 10.1 http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138914-iphone-7-plus-owners-can-finally-try-that-new-portrait-camera-mode http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138914-iphone-7-plus-owners-... There were also another thing or 2 that came in 10.3 iirc.
    - berberous 10y ago
      You're mistaken. Yes, portrait mode on the 7+ was introduced in 10.1 on the 7+ rather than at launch. But this feature was never available on the 6. It requires the two cameras in the 7+ to create a depth map and then blur the distance. Nothing to do with autofocus. There's no feature that was removed other than the headphone jack.
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        Well IIRC the portrait mode was absent completely from the 7+ camera app. This is analogous to the Tesla example, new hardware no software. The fact that the 7+ has a different portrait mode doesn't matter, the app had none, and in this case the new Tesla comes with new hardware that provides a different and arguably better "autopilot" but the software would trail the release of the hardware.
kjnkjnsdf 10y ago
Happens quite often. Hardware is updated but software is not ready. Similar approach happens with digital cameras, graphics cards, electronics equipment.
stult 10y ago
I'm totally just guessing, but possibly they still need training data for the new hardware configuration which they will collect from the newly sold cars. They could pay testers to drive them around for a while to generate that data or just roll it out to the public and crowd source the problem. They deliver less functionality at launch but start generating revenue earlier. Most large car companies don't mind deferring the revenue a little after incurring the initial development costs if it means delivering a complete product, but Tesla is operating on tighter margins than big auto.
- troncheadle 10y ago
  That is what the press release says.
  - codeulike 10y ago
    "I'm totally guessing"
hrayr 10y ago
Perhaps the original iPhone falls in this category. It did less (games, apps) than the competition when it launched, but soon the same product overtook the competition when the app store and API was released.
- eridius 10y ago
  When the original iPhone was released, there were no "current owners", because the thing wasn't available before it was released (that's kind of what 'released' means).
will_hughes 10y ago
> I can't think of a precedent for this Autopilot 1.0 was the precedent. They announced that at the 'D' event that all cars shipping from then on would have AP hardware in. The capabilities were progressively rolled out depending on the tech package you purchased over the next 12 months.
- dtparr 10y ago
  But new buyers weren't getting less than previous buyers, they just weren't getting everything at the time of purchase. That's actually pretty common. This is a clear "temporary" downgrade of capabilities in exchange for a later payoff.
_ph_ 10y ago
It seems that they expect to bring back the 1.0 features by December - it looks largely an approval for the system thing, and the enhanced features later over time.
rasz_pl 10y ago
Its not marketing decision, MobilEye dropped them, this is Teslas emergency plan.
- wibr 10y ago
  Not sure why this is downvoted, Tesla won't have the MobileEye system for new models and they want to roll out their own machine vision system, which is even more important now due to the new suite of cameras. That will take some time.
- Tepix 10y ago
  This is one of the most insightful comments here. Too bad it gets drowned in all the rest. Also, if you read the WSJ or other articles they don't mention this either. Good job by Tesla PR I suppose.
- grecy 10y ago
  > MobilEye dropped them Do you know if MobileEye dropped them, or they chose to go with something else? How do you know?
  - Matthias247 10y ago
    There were lots of articles and press releases around that on the web and linked here, just search for MobilEye and Tesla. E.g. the one here: http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobileye-for-pushing-the-envelope-in-terms-of-safety/ http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobiley...
- annerajb 10y ago
  They been working on this before mobile eye dropped them. Around a year ago a car with this exact setup of cameras ( using webcams) was spotted charging.
- exhilaration 10y ago
  What's the background to MobilEye dropping them? Any articles about this?

whicks 10y ago

Tesla is known for doing things without precedent. They also have the ability to push major updates OTA to their vehicles, which is what enables them to give "less" while promising more. Like the release said, they'll have the hardware, it just needs to be enabled.

dogma1138 10y ago
This isn't that uncommon in the automotive industry tbh. Features including performance related features have been pushed via software updates for years. Anything from navigation to cruise control to sport packages have been deployed either OTA or via a manual update. Tesla is just pushing it to a new limit (not necessarily a good thing) and is actually advertising every change and feature update.
- victorhooi 10y ago
  Interesting. Can you give any examples of other feature improvements in cars that have been pushed via OTA?

andr 10y ago

I wonder how much it would cost to add hardware for both Autopilot v1.0 and v2.0 for the gap models, so new customers don't have to make the sacrifice. Lack of complete Autopilot for a while is fine, but lack of emergency braking increases your life risk.

rasz_pl 10y ago
There is no price point when hardware manufacturer (mobileye) refuses to sell to you

Trufa 10y ago

I wonder how much it has to do with the autopilot death: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tragic-loss https://www.tesla.com/blog/tragic-loss

dogma1138 10y ago

>I can't think of a precedent for this as a marketing approach in modern consumer products. Apple iOS ;) the iPhone 7 had (don't know if it has now) some camera features (autofocus and raw related) disabled that were present on the 6/6s because of software limitations. This isn't that uncommon many times you can have a new product which comes with some features disabled/not working because the software did not catch up to the hardware yet for what ever reason.

ClassyJacket 10y ago
Can you provide a source? I've followed the iPhone 7 pretty closely, own one, and haven't heard of any of these missing camera features that were present on the 6S (just the headphone jack).
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Yes for example the autofocus for portrait mode for the 7 Plus was introduced with 10.1 http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138914-iphone-7-plus-owners-can-finally-try-that-new-portrait-camera-mode http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138914-iphone-7-plus-owners-... There were also another thing or 2 that came in 10.3 iirc.
  - berberous 10y ago
    You're mistaken. Yes, portrait mode on the 7+ was introduced in 10.1 on the 7+ rather than at launch. But this feature was never available on the 6. It requires the two cameras in the 7+ to create a depth map and then blur the distance. Nothing to do with autofocus. There's no feature that was removed other than the headphone jack.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      Well IIRC the portrait mode was absent completely from the 7+ camera app. This is analogous to the Tesla example, new hardware no software. The fact that the 7+ has a different portrait mode doesn't matter, the app had none, and in this case the new Tesla comes with new hardware that provides a different and arguably better "autopilot" but the software would trail the release of the hardware.

kjnkjnsdf 10y ago

Happens quite often. Hardware is updated but software is not ready. Similar approach happens with digital cameras, graphics cards, electronics equipment.

stult 10y ago

I'm totally just guessing, but possibly they still need training data for the new hardware configuration which they will collect from the newly sold cars. They could pay testers to drive them around for a while to generate that data or just roll it out to the public and crowd source the problem. They deliver less functionality at launch but start generating revenue earlier. Most large car companies don't mind deferring the revenue a little after incurring the initial development costs if it means delivering a complete product, but Tesla is operating on tighter margins than big auto.

troncheadle 10y ago
That is what the press release says.
- codeulike 10y ago
  "I'm totally guessing"

hrayr 10y ago

Perhaps the original iPhone falls in this category. It did less (games, apps) than the competition when it launched, but soon the same product overtook the competition when the app store and API was released.

eridius 10y ago
When the original iPhone was released, there were no "current owners", because the thing wasn't available before it was released (that's kind of what 'released' means).

will_hughes 10y ago

> I can't think of a precedent for this Autopilot 1.0 was the precedent. They announced that at the 'D' event that all cars shipping from then on would have AP hardware in. The capabilities were progressively rolled out depending on the tech package you purchased over the next 12 months.

dtparr 10y ago
But new buyers weren't getting less than previous buyers, they just weren't getting everything at the time of purchase. That's actually pretty common. This is a clear "temporary" downgrade of capabilities in exchange for a later payoff.

_ph_ 10y ago

It seems that they expect to bring back the 1.0 features by December - it looks largely an approval for the system thing, and the enhanced features later over time.

rasz_pl 10y ago

Its not marketing decision, MobilEye dropped them, this is Teslas emergency plan.

wibr 10y ago
Not sure why this is downvoted, Tesla won't have the MobileEye system for new models and they want to roll out their own machine vision system, which is even more important now due to the new suite of cameras. That will take some time.
Tepix 10y ago
This is one of the most insightful comments here. Too bad it gets drowned in all the rest. Also, if you read the WSJ or other articles they don't mention this either. Good job by Tesla PR I suppose.
grecy 10y ago
> MobilEye dropped them Do you know if MobileEye dropped them, or they chose to go with something else? How do you know?
- Matthias247 10y ago
  There were lots of articles and press releases around that on the web and linked here, just search for MobilEye and Tesla. E.g. the one here: http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobileye-for-pushing-the-envelope-in-terms-of-safety/ http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobiley...
annerajb 10y ago
They been working on this before mobile eye dropped them. Around a year ago a car with this exact setup of cameras ( using webcams) was spotted charging.
exhilaration 10y ago
What's the background to MobilEye dropping them? Any articles about this?