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> Do usability studies and follow their results, like Microsoft used to do in 90s. Isn't Ribbon UI based on such usability studies? Yet it's something that's c

> Do usability studies and follow their results, like Microsoft used to do in 90s. Isn't Ribbon UI based on such usability studies? Yet it's something that's constantly being criticized. There must be more to it than just following the studies.

js8 10y ago
You're right. And I am one of the people criticizing ribbon, because I think menus and toolbars have different purposes that shouldn't be conflated (menu is for all possible UI actions with no possibility for user to customize, while toolbar is for most common UI actions and other interactive elements with possibility to customize). With ribbons, the possibility of customization is gone. But to the point, I think the "more to it" is simply inertia of existing user base. Which is no small consideration apart from just usability. Addendum: Actually, lack of customization in modern software is also very interesting topic for a discussion.
- Retra 10y ago
  Why can't you customize ribbons? Anyway, I don't understand your distinction there, since every part of software can be customized however you like. Most users don't customize, and don't have any need to if the the software was properly designed for their use-case.
  - flukus 10y ago
    > Most users don't customize, and don't have any need to if the the software was properly designed for their use-case. I don't think it's possible to design general purpose software like word to any specific use case. There are simply too many users and too many use cases, from grandma writing a letter to professionals doing mail merges (or whatever people do with word).
  - js8 10y ago
    > Why can't you customize ribbons? Two reasons. First, you don't want to, just like you don't want to customize main menu. There should to be a place that has every option, which you cannot unintentionally mess up. Second, ribbons are very carefully designed for looks, and it makes them hard to customize. I think it could be done, it's just not trivial. So, for example, in MS Office, they don't bother with customization. If you want to look at how customizable software looked like in the past, look at for instance AMI Pro. You could redefine keyboard shortcuts and toolbars any way you liked. And we are not even talking about software like Emacs, which can be customized very deeply. I think some users would customize, it's very paternalistic to think that they wouldn't, and it would make them more productive. But it's just not in the fashion right now.
Retra 10y ago
Why, because people complain about it? Aren't you just questioning the value of usability studies by employing vague usability anecdotes, which when collected would form a study?

js8 10y ago

You're right. And I am one of the people criticizing ribbon, because I think menus and toolbars have different purposes that shouldn't be conflated (menu is for all possible UI actions with no possibility for user to customize, while toolbar is for most common UI actions and other interactive elements with possibility to customize). With ribbons, the possibility of customization is gone. But to the point, I think the "more to it" is simply inertia of existing user base. Which is no small consideration apart from just usability. Addendum: Actually, lack of customization in modern software is also very interesting topic for a discussion.

Retra 10y ago
Why can't you customize ribbons? Anyway, I don't understand your distinction there, since every part of software can be customized however you like. Most users don't customize, and don't have any need to if the the software was properly designed for their use-case.
- flukus 10y ago
  > Most users don't customize, and don't have any need to if the the software was properly designed for their use-case. I don't think it's possible to design general purpose software like word to any specific use case. There are simply too many users and too many use cases, from grandma writing a letter to professionals doing mail merges (or whatever people do with word).
- js8 10y ago
  > Why can't you customize ribbons? Two reasons. First, you don't want to, just like you don't want to customize main menu. There should to be a place that has every option, which you cannot unintentionally mess up. Second, ribbons are very carefully designed for looks, and it makes them hard to customize. I think it could be done, it's just not trivial. So, for example, in MS Office, they don't bother with customization. If you want to look at how customizable software looked like in the past, look at for instance AMI Pro. You could redefine keyboard shortcuts and toolbars any way you liked. And we are not even talking about software like Emacs, which can be customized very deeply. I think some users would customize, it's very paternalistic to think that they wouldn't, and it would make them more productive. But it's just not in the fashion right now.

Retra 10y ago

Why, because people complain about it? Aren't you just questioning the value of usability studies by employing vague usability anecdotes, which when collected would form a study?